Quick question - tiling to wood

[kimik123]

im tiling a 10m2 kitchen floor with slate looking ceramic tiles, i will be tiling strate onto new floorboards which are these big things from bnq, will this be ok? will i need to prime or anything like that? also what addy would i use, thanks for ur help in advance,

[grumpygrouter]

im tiling a 10m2 kitchen floor with slate looking ceramic tiles, i will be tiling strate onto new floorboards which are these big things from bnq, will this be ok? will i need to prime or anything like that? also what addy would i use, thanks for ur help in advance,

You couldn't expand a bit more about this could you. More detailed the info, the better the advice you will receive.

[kimik123]

yeah course grumps, there just sheets of wood maybe 6ft long 2 ft wide, they look like mdf, but they are made for replacement floor boards , and there screwed down to the joists proply and theres little movement. i just cannot get a hold of the name, i was told they were from bnq but cannot find them on there site like, so who knows,

[grumpygrouter]

If the floor is solid (no bounce) you have a couple of options really, 1. you can overboard anyway with ply or backerboard and tile on top of that or 2. Use a (bal or Mapei) 2 part flexy adhesive straight down on top, or Ardex 7001 or Granafix Ultimateflex.

As we can't see what you can see, my inclination would be to lay 6mm Hardie backerboard and then tile on top of that.

If you are SURE the floor is solid and there are no gaps that require filling then you have the option to use something like Ardex 7001, Granfix Ultimateflex or BAL Fastflex straight on the top.

Which ever way you choose to go, ALWAYS check out your preferred adhesive manufacturers preparation recommendations.

[kimik123]

thanks very much grumps, think ill go with the granfix as its my fav stuff anyways, yeah certain theres no bouce and no gaps as its that t&g stuff i think its called what fits together like for example laminate flooring,

[Dan]

I guess it's got a green tint to it and it's 20-odd mm thick tongue and grooved trated chipboard, it's the stuff you'd see in new-builds these days.

It's sound to tile to as long as you're okay weight-wise like grumps says.

[kimik123]

yeah, thats what it is dan, with it being ceramic tiles the weight wont be a problem like, cheers for ur help lads.

[Dave]

I personally don't recommend tiling directly to chipboard...not stable enough IMO....overboard with a thin backerboard and tile with an elastomeric type adhesive or use a thicker ply overlay and tile with a standard rapid setting flexible adhesive..

[medlar]

overboard with ply and fix using fast flex,i would`nt fix straight onto chipboard no matter what,only my opinion like

[grumpygrouter]

My apologies, i missed the "mdf like" bit of the post. I thought we were talking "normal" timber. As it is with a floor that size, i would recommend over boarding, but if you're SURE the floor is solid, my original recommendations still stand.

[kimik123]

yeah i understand what ur saying there dave,

one more thing, ive never put ceramic down on a floor b4 would never thought it would be strong enough?

[kimik123]

doesnt look like overboarding is guna be an option on this one like, just been on the phone there. if i was defo certain that is was the incorrect thing to do i would have pushed it more, but on this one im just guna go for it.

[AllurePTS]

If it is the Green Tinted chipboard ....it's called Kaberdek, it's good quality and highly water resistant .....it's used a lot in the Timber frame industry .... the joiners often errect the building structure and lay the floor to give them a working platform - while they construct the outer walls and roof .....they use Kaberdek as it can get soaked without causing problems. For the same reason, it's also popular in the aftermarket for use in bathrooms and kitchens.

It comes in 18mm and 22mm - if it's upstairs in a modern house then it's most likely to be 18mm, if it's downstairs it's most likely to be 22mm ....it's vacuum treated (rather than just dipped) ...... so it's very stable if it gets wet .....so, provided it's properly laid and well screwed down, then the chances are good that it will survive without problems.

The "wetting" from the tiling process certainly won't damage it - it will dry out fine without swelling.......it's what happens to it in it's lifetime that could cause problems !!! .....so, as the guys say ....use a good flexi addy and grout and also seal well round the perimiter with silicon, to minimise the chances of water ingress.

I did a number of these for a contractor over 10 years ago and (as I still know a few people that own the houses) .....I know they are still good to this day, I've also done a few within my family and they are all still fine too.

As the guys say though ....this is still NOT recommended for tiling - and it's always best to overboard if at all possible

What worries me Kimik .....is that you say "it looks like MDF" .....there are some other kinds of fibrous boards out there and some of them are cheap and nasty and will swell big time if they get wet ......so you do really need to check what this stuff is .....personally, I would be happy to take the risk with Kaberdek, but not anything else (unless it's waterproof and designed for that use)

Hope that helps anyway, good luck

[whitebeam]

You could scratch up the surface with very course sand paper for a bit more grip

[wivers]

I have tiled direct onto this stuff with bal 2 part flexi. I did a whole upstairs landing and toilet and even their stairs a while ago, and its all fine. The 2 part gear sticks like Fekin to White snake album, quality stuff. I had to shave the hairs off me knee caps to get the gear off

[whitebeam]

I have tiled direct onto this stuff with bal 2 part flexi. I did a whole upstairs landing and toilet and even their stairs a while ago, and its all fine. The 2 part gear sticks like Fekin to White snake album, quality stuff. I had to shave the hairs off me knee caps to get the gear off

I got bald patches on my knees, The other half don't believe it's down to tiling floors

[doug boardley]

with dave and medlar, over years seen tons of products that say it can be used straight onto chipboard, never yet seen one that has fulfilled that claim.

[whitebeam]

with dave and medlar, over years seen tons of products that say it can be used straight onto chipboard, never yet seen one that has fulfilled that claim.

Mapei give a few of there products for chipboard

[Dave]

Mapei give a few of there products for chipboard

I know that adhesive manufacturers say that thier products will be suitable for tiling to chipboard...but as a pro would you give a guarantee on it....

[grumpygrouter]

I think a lot of this chipboard question can you/ can't you tile straight onto it needs to have a lot of variables taken into account. Such as 1. size of floor 2. movement in the floor prior to tiling, 5. what room the floor is in and 6 what is the usage of the room.

For instance, a small shower room of say 2m2 with a solid floor, used by two pensioners is much less likely (I feel) to have issues than a 10m2 family bathroom floor with 5 young kids splashing about and running around in it every day.

The first scenario I would more than likely tile straight onto it, where as the second, I would really need to overboard it.

Modern adhesives are pretty good and if the manufacturer says they should be suitable, then maybe we should trust them, shouldn't we? I think common sense needs to prevail sometimes and a judgment call made based on the conditions and situation at the time.

Just to stimulate debate, what are everybody else's views on this?

[Dave]

RUSS........its not any adhesives that i am on about...the adhesives are fine and very good.........its the chipboard......this comprises of glued and compressed particles....not cross bonded layers like wbp ply....the chipboard particles are open to stress and can easily break away...This is not a strong compressive structure IMO....nothing to do with the adhesive at all..it's the substrate it is sticking too.......
As russ say's any more opinions on this..?..

[michel]

IMO chipboard is a problem subtrate, regardless of what the manafactures say!
in todays market why not ply,screed or backerboard? you make more money and get the "full" backing of the adhesive producer!!

[whitebeam]

I had information from Mapei tech but the guy said it's not the perfect base..?. I was refering to the black book from mapei which gives some of their addy can be fixed to chipboard. Myself I have laid onto the green stuff with soverign porcel flex with some sbr thrown in for good measure, Never made a habit out of it but have'nt had a problem... yet

[grumpygrouter]

I know what you mean Dave and I agree with what you say too.

Unfortunately, there are many customers out there that insist that the floor is done without boarding as they either don't want a step or not wanting to have the additional cost.

I personally have only tiled directly to chipboard on 3 floors, 2 was a new build, with Fasflex supplied by the builder and he said "this is the way we always do it" after I told him it was not good practise (floor sizes, 2.5 and 3.0m2), and the 3 was a small hallway for a single parent with 2 teenage girls. She just couldn't afford the extra cost. This floor I used Ardex 7001 and was about 7 to 8m2. Anything bigger though and flexing may come more into play which would add stresses to the fibres of the chipboard as you mentioned. I don't think I would be happy tiling straight on to anything bigger than this without over boarding of some sort.

I have not had a call back on any of the floors so I can only assume they are still down and ok.

[sibs]

So on the subject of green chipboard, I have got a quote to do for 3 floors in a house. En suite - 2.5 sqm , main bathroom - 3.5 sqm and a downstairs cloak 2.0 sqm. The first two have this green chipboard (covered in carpet at the mo) as the house is modern I would say between 5 and 10 yrs old.
Would it be ok for me to tile straight onto this using fastflex, given the dimentions of each room?
The downstairs cloak...not a problem as is concrete screed

[grumpygrouter]

So on the subject of green chipboard, I have got a quote to do for 3 floors in a house. En suite - 2.5 sqm , main bathroom - 3.5 sqm and a downstairs cloak 2.0 sqm. The first two have this green chipboard (covered in carpet at the mo) as the house is modern I would say between 5 and 10 yrs old.
Would it be ok for me to tile straight onto this using fastflex, given the dimentions of each room?
The downstairs cloak...not a problem as is concrete screed

This would be your call Sibs, bearing in mind previous posts in this thread.

It is obviously better to cover the chipboard with something than not at all, but if the customer doesn't want the lip/extra cost, you will have to decide your next step in the process.

All I will say is, I have done it without apparent problems so far on the floors I have done. I prefer Ardex 7001 myself but Fastflex is a brill adhesive too. I just don't like using it.

[diamondtiling]

I guess it's got a green tint to it and it's 20-odd mm thick tongue and grooved trated chipboard, it's the stuff you'd see in new-builds these days.

It's sound to tile to as long as you're okay weight-wise like grumps says.

Hi fellas, I am at a friends house, I tiled his bathrooms (3) some years back, two are fine with no problems at all, the last one which is the biggest doubles up as a wet room, the shower area is fine 1.2x1.2 tray former with mosaics to falls, it is a green chipboard floor and it was screwed down with no deflection whatsoever, the joists are 250mm x 100, we fitted 10 mill thermal boards and then the ufh, acrylic bond was used where it should be, and the chipboard was screwed at 200mm intervals. the problem is the grout has cracked in the middle of the room, an area of about 1 mtr sq, the tiles are not moving, well not that I can see anyway. The whole footprint of this house is built on a disused sand quarry and the house has been subject to major movement over the past 40 years, new footings and steel were used in the new extention which incorporates the suspect bathroom, there was a bit of movement which we now think has settled, my question is could I re-grout with a latex additive to overcome this problem?
The tiles are 400x300 porcelain, the adhesive was granfix flexible as was the grout, This product has never caused me any problems in the past.
Any thoughts are much appreciated.
Dom.

as an afterthought, the chipboard was also glued to the joists.

[pjc]

i wouldent tile as it is i would overboard it with 12mm ply unsable imo

[diamondtiling]

it was tiled 15 months ago.

[Sir Ramic]

I think i would remove the cracked grout and regrout using a strong mix of grout and something like Bal GT1 additive. That would be a starting point and take it from there,