Rendering a wall

[Terry-La-Tiler]

Hi Guys,

I'm hoping that a few of you might be able to help me out and give me some advice on the follwing. I'm hoping too that a few of you might have lots of patience because I suspect that this first question will most certainly not be the last and you can probably expect many more from me in the weeks and months to follow.

I'm attempting to tile my first bathroom at a friends and have come up against a number of problems before I've even thought about sticking tiles to the wall.

Firstly, I have begun to bash the existing tiles off the wall with a hammer and bolster and even though I expected some plaster to come off with them. I really didn't expect all of it to come off with them!
The walls now consist of a sandy cement constitution and there is a very small area (bout as big as a tennis ball) that has come off too and is down to the brickwork behind it.

On a course recently, we were shown how to render a wall and 'make good' using a dark grey / black plaster type mixture.
Can anyone here tell me what this stuff might be called, where I might buy it, and whether I would be likely to be able to make good these walls prior to tiling.
I really hope that I'm not going to have to get a plasterer in or consider dry lining. I got enough on me plate as it is!

Secondly, I also intend to tile the floor, as the floor is made up of floorboards and I realise that I will need to board it with ply and use a flexible adhesive and grout. I'm wondering though whether any of you might be able to tell me the name of the boarding that is supposed to be much thinner and stronger than ply, and where I might be able to buy it?

Thanks very much.

Terry.

[brian c]

floor -hardi backer boards come in various thickness'

walls -fill them with rapidset adhesive once you have got rid of ALL loose pieces of plaster and primed wall with acrylic primer.

you could also dot and dab new plasterboard on to wall concerned and this will give you a new clean surface to tile....

[doug boardley]

it sounds as though walls were originally dubbed out with 2 coats of sand and cement render, sounds as though top coat has perished and I wouldn't be suprised if first coat has as well. Hate to sound pessimistic but if this is the case it all needs to come off. I appreciate it's at a friends but it really needs sorting bottom up so to speak.Being a time served plasterer it would be a walk in the park for me to re render but I'd suggest you dot and dabbed plasterboard onto brickwork. The grey/black plaster you queried is probably bonding plaster.
good luck,
doug

[whitebeam]

I take it you mean the finish came off leaving sand and cement backing, Is it old and soft or quite strong, If tapped does it sound hollow or firm...?

[BDS]

a couple of months ago i did a bathroom and one wall (outside wall)was really bad and had to have all old render and crap off and rerendered,got a builder friend in to redo it payed him to do the job,then a week or so after went in to start job then found out that customer had bought a semi pedistal basin which wasn`t a real problem just had to chase pipes in to wall,low and behold shed loads of the render came off, so as i was on the job was a bit up the s**t creek with out a paddle to say the least,so rang the tech guys at BAL and they suggested there quick set render so as no BAL stockist near me has heard of it let alone ever stocked it so ordered it online got it delived to my house (which came AM the next day) never rendered before so was new to me but did as per instructions on bag,builder still a friend,but will never ever get any work from me again,loved the stuff and the ease of use that i`ll always do my own rendering from now on

[doug boardley]

bloody hell bds, you mean I wasted 5 years doing apprenticeship!!!

[BDS]

No mate not all but when your up against it and got to get the job done and done right you get on and do it,

[Dave]

a couple of months ago i did a bathroom and one wall (outside wall)was really bad and had to have all old render and crap off and rerendered,got a builder friend in to redo it payed him to do the job,then a week or so after went in to start job then found out that customer had bought a semi pedistal basin which wasn`t a real problem just had to chase pipes in to wall,low and behold shed loads of the render came off, so as i was on the job was a bit up the s**t creek with out a paddle to say the least,so rang the tech guys at BAL and they suggested there quick set render so as no BAL stockist near me has heard of it let alone ever stocked it so ordered it online got it delived to my house (which came AM the next day) never rendered before so was new to me but did as per instructions on bag,builder still a friend,but will never ever get any work from me again,loved the stuff and the ease of use that i`ll always do my own rendering from now on

They would do........fortune.....better just to use a quick setting cement and some sand from builders merchants.......much much cheaper and dose the same job..

[BDS]

dave so can i tile on to that after a couple of days then?

[Sully]

They would do........fortune.....better just to use a quick setting cement and some sand from builders merchants.......much much cheaper and dose the same job..

Can't say I agree with you there Dave - like BDS I had limited experience of rendering but like you, I used to use a cement & sand but can confirm that the BAL Quick Set render is so much easier to work with. Have you tried it?

[BDS]

And i thought £40 quid for 2 bags delivered to my door wasn`t bad,but hay ho what do i know you learn something new every day

[whitebeam]

For delivery as well, Not bad

[Dave]

I didnt say about it bieng hard or easy to work with, i said it is a fortune for what it is....you can get fast setting cement and it dries fast and can be tiled on...

NO i havn't used it because i wouldn't pay the price...have you used fast setting cement...?..

[atec]

Hi just jumping in here,

How long would you have to wait with fast setting cement, sounds a lot handier and cheaper

[BDS]

I took into account of situation and fuel costs of a 40min round trip to local builders merchants,time of the job,and ease of use (cos of never rendering before)but like i said you learn something new every day.

[Dave]

Hi just jumping in here,

How long would you have to wait with fast setting cement, sounds a lot handier and cheaper

As with most fast set cements ..usually about 24hrs.....for tiling...

[Grace'sDad]

They would do........fortune.....better just to use a quick setting cement and some sand from builders merchants.......much much cheaper and dose the same job..

I have to say I've used BAL's quickset render too and it is excellent stuff - 2hrs and good to tile.
Sure, it's a lot more expensive than quickset cement and sand, but it's not meant as a replacement for the "proper" mix-it-yourself quick set render. I thought it was just meant as a handy one-bag solution for small patch-up jobs.

I wouldn't use it for a full wall - too expensive.
But it's certainly a time and cost saver for small / medium repairs and patching up (where rapidset adhesive won't work).
I keep a bag in the van now.

[BDS]

I used it to patch up not to do full walls as i said in previous post cos i was in the doo doo at the time

[doug boardley]

but if his render is kn******d it's going to take more than patching up, whatever

[BDS]

no it was just in the places where i chased pipe work and then checked all the rest to make sure if there was any other bad bits

[Grace'sDad]

I used it to patch up not to do full walls as i said in previous post cos i was in the doo doo at the time

Then you did what I would have done. Exactly what it is sold for.
It would be nice to use for full jobs but like Dave says - more cost effective then to mix yer' own!

[BDS]

yeah as i said you learn something new every day,

[Sully]

I didnt say about it bieng hard or easy to work with, i said it is a fortune for what it is....you can get fast setting cement and it dries fast and can be tiled on...

NO i havn't used it because i wouldn't pay the price...have you used fast setting cement...?..

Yes I have but as you can see from other users posts, the BAL render is pretty good stuff and that 2 hour drying option is worth it on its own. 'Time is money' as they say

[doug boardley]

gonna have to pull plasterers rank here guys, to my mind and post description, it's been double coated in sand and cement, post says that all top coat's come off, chances are very slim that base coat would have been plastered to a tileworthy standard, ie it won't have seen a derby or straight edge, so patching is not the answer in my very humble opinion!

[Grace'sDad]

gonna have to pull plasterers rank here guys, to my mind and post description, it's been double coated in sand and cement, post says that all top coat's come off, chances are very slim that base coat would have been plastered to a tileworthy standard, ie it won't have seen a derby or straight edge, so patching is not the answer in my very humble opinion!

Agreed, sounds like my house (1930s semi) all the walls were dry and had to come off. It was only vertical gravity keeping the render anywhere near the brick work!

[BDS]

i only put about quick set render cos some one said about taking the really bad bits out that are flaking/falling off or the patching up

[Rob Z]

Hi everyone,

It's interesting to read and learn how you float walls over there. It sounds like the mud if floated straight over the block or brick on the walls, then possible scratched, and then a second coat applied later and screeded to plumb. Here most stuff is stick-built and when there is a mud job it is usually floated over metal diamond lath that is nailed to the studs. Except in certain limited markets around the US, there aren't many guys left doing mud walls.

We mix our own sand/cement/masonry lime to make wall mud because I can't find any ready mix stuff anymore.

Sorry for the thread drift from the original post.

PS: What is a "bolster"? Is it what we call a cold chisel?

[brian c]

this is a bolster..............

[whitebeam]

If the block/brick work is good then a single coat render/mud will suffice, metal diamond lath is called expanded metal lathing (EML) over here. A cold chisel is long and thin, A bolster has a wide blade from 2'' to 4''

[Rob Z]

Thanks, guys. Now I know "spanner" and "bolster".

The bolster looks like what we call a brick chisel.

The older houses that have exterior walls of solid block and brick still have furring strips nailed to the block with the metal lath nailed to that, then a three step float.

For much of the production construction work around much of the US, floated mud walls were stopped in the 1960's. There are certain markets where mud still is used in new construction, but in most places it has been tile-over-drywall for decades.