1st Job: travertine, tumbled unfilled 610 x 410

[aby]

never used this before but up for a challenge....
what is the recommended adhesive
what is the recommended grout
what is the best sealer
is there anything else I'll need?

walls are render / plaster
floor is floorboard that I'm fitting ardibacker (upstairs)
screed floor downstairs
thanks any advise is much appreciated

[TilingLogistics]

Hi

To start with i would guess that that is too heavy for the walls. Max 20 kg M2 on Plaster, 32kg M2 on plasterboard and you will have to check with backerboards but usually around 45-50kg M2. Dont forget to take into account adhesive and grout as well for the weight.

Depending on the screed thickness and length of time it has been down you are probably going to be better off using a decoupling membrane for safety. The tiles will need back skimming and I would use a SPF for the walls and probably a PTB for the floors. I woulds seal first sparingly using a temporary sealer like BAL unless you can work very clean. I would probably fill the holes with a matching colour grout something like Mapei or BAL. I would wash down after grouting allow the floor to dry thoroughly and then probably seal with Aqua Mix Enrich and Seal or Aqua Mix Sealers Choice Gold. However, I suggest you do a test area of sealing first and show the client the two finishes first prior to sealing the floor

Kev

[top tiler]

i agree with logistics. have you got a good water cutter you will need one

[whitebeam]

never used this before but up for a challenge....
what is the recommended adhesive
what is the recommended grout
what is the best sealer
is there anything else I'll need?

walls are render / plaster
floor is floorboard that I'm fitting ardibacker (upstairs)
screed floor downstairs
thanks any advise is much appreciated

Check this out for your tile weights Tiles and Adhesive Weight Per Square Metre - THE TILE SOURCE

[Branty]

Very usefull post whitebeam.

[Branty]

Kev would you not just seal with the aqua mix rather than using temporary sealer?

[aby]

so what do i need to put on the walls to get them to stick and stay stuck?, i've seen 20mm thick limestone fitted in a new plastered hose floor to ceiling and they've been up over a year
never had anybody mention weight limits before

[Fred]

Is there a web page for aqua mix?

[deanotile]

Is there a web page for aqua mix?

http://www.aquamix.com/

[graham31]

http://www.aquamix.com/

web address takes me nowhere

[deanotile]

Sorry don’t know what happened there but just google it

[TilingLogistics]

Kev would you not just seal with the aqua mix rather than using temporary sealer?

No because Aqua Mix is permanent and lots of people seem to struggle to work clean when fixing Natural Stone. So I think the BAL Temp Sealer is the best for the job to assist clean up. I have looked at 5 jobs in the last two weeks with grout haze and sealer problems

Kev

[Branty]

Only a topical sealer would help with the clean up. Say a lithofin slate seal?
Where as an impregnator, such as enrich and seal is no good for helping with the claen up.

[TilingLogistics]

Only a topical sealer would help with the clean up. Say a lithofin slate seal?
Where as an impregnator, such as enrich and seal is no good for helping with the claen up.

BAL Temp Sealer is Topical! Why would anyone use slate seal on tumbled travertine? I would never reccommend Enrich & Seal as a sealer to be used prior to grouting because it has no carrier as such and therefore even though it penetrates well a certain amount stays very close to the surface.

Kev

[wetdec]

Ok

You dont back skim unfilled it will push trhough and mess up your grout voids.

You dont seal unfilled before grouting either as it reduces your grout grab, especially not with Bal pre-sealer it is not suitable.

tiler

[TilingLogistics]

Ok

You dont back skim unfilled it will push trhough and mess up your grout voids.

You dont seal unfilled before grouting either as it reduces your grout grab, especially not with Bal pre-sealer it is not suitable.

tiler

Never had a problem back skimming trav with it pushing through and I cannot understand how sealer fills the holes if you apply it sparingly with a paint pad! I never got any in the holes. Why isn't Bal Temporary Sealer suitable?

Kev

[wetdec]

http://www.wetdecs.co.uk/Bal.pdf



For some reason everybody throws this stuff around but doesnt read the data sheet, I have said this before it is NOT suitable unless you have a smooth surface.


He is looking at walls and floors with tumbled unfilled how many days should he allow to pick out the voids you think, its not practical .... Unfilled tumbled is the best strongest cut of trav it simply doesnt need back buttering

Why on earth would you want to seal the surface of something you want to fill with grout its not sensible, unfilled is made to be grout filled and its tumbled you going to seal around the holes..................

I'm not having a go just saying it as it is.............



tiler

[Branty]

BAL Temp Sealer is Topical! Why would anyone use slate seal on tumbled travertine? I would never reccommend Enrich & Seal as a sealer to be used prior to grouting because it has no carrier as such and therefore even though it penetrates well a certain amount stays very close to the surface.

Kev

I didn't say you would. I was just thinking aloud. I've used it tons of times on slate. Always helped with the grouting process.
I was thinking, would it be helpful to use a topical sealer on tumbled travertine, before you grout.
As wetdec says, you dont want to seal the holes you need to fill.

[TilingLogistics]

http://www.wetdecs.co.uk/Bal.pdf



For some reason everybody throws this stuff around but doesnt read the data sheet, I have said this before it is NOT suitable unless you have a smooth surface.


He is looking at walls and floors with tumbled unfilled how many days should he allow to pick out the voids you think, its not practical .... Unfilled tumbled is the best strongest cut of trav it simply doesnt need back buttering

Why on earth would you want to seal the surface of something you want to fill with grout its not sensible, unfilled is made to be grout filled and its tumbled you going to seal around the holes..................

I'm not having a go just saying it as it is.............



tiler

I am not disagreeing with you either. I agree but it seems just lately people have a problem working clean with unfilled travertine. I have been called out to several jobs in the last few months where the travertine has been grouted and not cleaned off properley consequently it is covered in grout haze and then been sealed in. I am having to put it right because it looks rubbish. Every job except one has been fixer error. When travertine has been grouted it should be left at least a minimum of 24 hours before sealing. Then it should be rubbed off again prior to sealing this is especially true in the case of Aqua Mix Enrich & seal or Lithofin stainstop plus!

Kev

[TilingLogistics]

I didn't say you would. I was just thinking aloud. I've used it tons of times on slate. Always helped with the grouting process.
I was thinking, would it be helpful to use a topical sealer on tumbled travertine, before you grout.
As wetdec says, you dont want to seal the holes you need to fill.

Sorry Danny never read your post properley. I work clean anyway but I always think a topical sealer applied sparingly helps with clean up. Wetdec doesn't agree and I can see why. I will try and post some pics tomorrow night of a sealer applied incorrectly to show you how bad it looks.

Kev

[wetdec]

I am not disagreeing with you either. I agree but it seems just lately people have a problem working clean with unfilled travertine. I have been called out to several jobs in the last few months where the travertine has been grouted and not cleaned off properley consequently it is covered in grout haze and then been sealed in.

Yes but your trying to solve 1 problem and creating another............Tumbled unfilled and unfilled needs slurry grouting and that is the answer..........

Fine workable slurry grout will fill everything (mapei ultracolour) and as its wet should come off clean working diagonally across the tiles with a rubber float.

When dry enough, bucket, sponge float (if it drags leave it longer) and again when dry then a day before dusting off and sealing................


tiler

..

[TilingLogistics]

Yes but your trying to solve 1 problem and creating another............Tumbled unfilled and unfilled needs slurry grouting and that is the answer..........

Fine workable slurry grout will fill everything (mapei ultracolour) and as its wet should come off clean working diagonally across the tiles with a rubber float.

When dry enough, bucket, sponge float (if it drags leave it longer) and again when dry then a day before dusting off and sealing................


tiler

..

That's exactly what I am saying. I'm not the one with the problem! What do you think I do when I grind travertine with lippage and it pulls a lot of the grout back out.

The point and the disagreement between us is I say BAL Temporary Sealer helps OTHERS in clean up if applied VERY SPARINGLY with a paint pad and your saying it doesn't and its not suitable!!!

So lets agree to disagree.

Kev

[enduro]

The biggest problem is people do not realise how much more work is involved fixing natural stone, and quote £18/20 sqm then rush the job as if they are fixing ceramics, just finished a job fixing a Honed limestone floor in a manor house, I charged £45 sqm labour. They had the kitchen floor tiled 2 years ago with the same tiles, but when the guy finished apparently it was covered in adhesive and grout and the only way to get back to what it was ment to look like was to have someone to grind and polish it, she was not happy.

[aby]

i meant to say earlier that this is going in my own house therefore i have the time to do a proper job ;;;; i just wanted to know the best recommended adhesive ,sealer and grout for the travertine

[wetdec]

That's exactly what I am saying. I'm not the one with the problem! What do you think I do when I grind travertine with lippage and it pulls a lot of the grout back out.

The point and the disagreement between us is I say BAL Temporary Sealer helps OTHERS in clean up if applied VERY SPARINGLY with a paint pad and your saying it doesn't and its not suitable!!!

So lets agree to disagree.

Kev

Now we are talking about something else.

You are saying use Bal temporary sealer...............

Bal say not to.......... Now who is right...........could it be Bal technical ??


absum.



..

[andy-p]

i meant to say earlier that this is going in my own house therefore i have the time to do a proper job ;;;; i just wanted to know the best recommended adhesive ,sealer and grout for the travertine

use a white single part flexible adhesive , mapeis keraflex maxi would be ideal for tiles that size, mapeis ultracolor grout go for jasmine or beige maybe, any sealer as long as its suitable for trav , and i would back skim unfilled trav when fixing on floors , some are badly pitted and holed seems crazy not to and never had a problem with the grout,...

[TilingLogistics]

i meant to say earlier that this is going in my own house therefore i have the time to do a proper job ;;;; i just wanted to know the best recommended adhesive ,sealer and grout for the travertine

Well Done!!!

Kev