bath

[atec]

couple of quetions on a bathroom, the client wants me to remove bath and put new one in, i have never put a bath in, not talking about the plumbing but actually fitting the bath, do i need to be a joiner, do i need to build a wooden frame or is the stand/feet supplied enough, also is it better to tile the wall the bath is going against before bath is fitted or after.

[whitebeam]

Surly you be better to get a plumber in as your've never fitted one before, Bath in before you tile. Metal feet and usualy comes with panel but depending the bath customer wants

[theyomper]

Bath in first as above, then tile. However......will the new baths waste fall in the same place, likewise the taps......are you comfortable with doing the plumbing......does your liabilty insurance cover you for plumbing......Personally if you have never done one before I would recommend getting a plumber in to do it...........it may cost the customer a little extra but it may save you a lot of grief and more importantly time.

[Alberta Stone]

One of the companies we install for insists that installers do not even re-fit toilets.
In this day and age it is wise to let those with the proper insurance do their specific work.
Unless you are a certified plumber your liability insurance will not cover you.

We used to do total re-fits and did them well, have most of the plumbing tools, but we don't take those on anymore.

[faithhealer]

couple of quetions on a bathroom, the client wants me to remove bath and put new one in, i have never put a bath in, not talking about the plumbing but actually fitting the bath, do i need to be a joiner, do i need to build a wooden frame or is the stand/feet supplied enough, also is it better to tile the wall the bath is going against before bath is fitted or after.

Phone a few plumbers and test the water, so to speak. If you get on with one of them a mutual rewarding partnership could come of it!

[theyomper]

Phone a few plumbers and test the water, so to speak. If you get on with one of them a mutual rewarding partnership could come of it!

Good advice. I have on hand to call upon Simon the plumber........for installations.........Simon the builder.......for major prep work.......Simon the sparky.....part p registered.

We are frequently working together whether it be from one of my leads or one of theirs. It works well with customers as they know that they are getting qualified tradesmen, all with liabilty insurance, working in their home.

[pjc]

on sunday does she want you to cook for her family ? lol

[sweaty sock]

get a plumber in mate if you haven't done it before and offer to help him lift it in etc and try and learn - so many little variations on baths so don't attempt it - just insist the guy gets it spot on level on all sides so ask to help him level it as a check for yourself and a valuable contact may be made

[cornish_crofter]

One of the companies we install for insists that installers do not even re-fit toilets.
In this day and age it is wise to let those with the proper insurance do their specific work.
Unless you are a certified plumber your liability insurance will not cover you.

Alberta I must disagree with you there.

I am NOT a certified plumber but my public liability insurance DOES cover me to fit bathroom suites, showers, kitchens etc. They will only see red if I do major work to central heating systems.

I'm insured with Direct Line. If you phone them up they will put you onto their general policy that covers handymen etc. It's a lot cheaper than going on line with them.

All they wanted to know is my turnover, claimes history and then they checked that the policy was suitable for me.

You may be right in that tilers may not have taken out public liability insurance to do plumbing. This will depend on the policy that each tiler has.

As for removing and refitting a bath, If the new bath is going in the same place it is a relitively simple procedure. I usually allow 2 days for refitting a suite (straight swap) but having done a number of part swaps in recent months I could probably get that figure down to a day. I allow more time in case I need to do repairs to plumbing etc or that the materials the customer has bought need to be changed.

There is plenty of advice on the net - such as DIY Doctor etc about fitting a bath.

Essentially, assuming the taps and wastes are in the same place you will probably need to change the trap under the waste, and you may find that the tap connectors are too high or too low for new taps with different threads. In any case you should fit isolation valves in the supplies to the taps. I often use good quality flexible tap connectors with integrated shut off valves if I need to incorporate a shut off valve and alter the positions of the tap connectors.

If you don't need to change the tap connectors then change the sealing washers in the existing tap connectors. My preference is to use fibre washers, not rubber. I carry selection boxes of washers for domestic plumbing, so I'm never short of these. Screwfix sell these for around £10.

Now for the assemply of the bath itself. Most people who've never fitted a bath before make the following mistakes:-

1. No preparation or checking the hole for the waste for rough areas likely to cause issues with achieving a water tight seal. If there are rough edges here I usually use some medium wet and dry to achieve a smooth surface.
2. No silicone used to form a seal. Despite what the manufacturers tell you you need to use silicone between the underside of the top of the waste and the bath, then again between the underside of the bath and the rubber washer/flange of the bottom part of the waste. Even after you've rubbed down the underside of this area of the bath, you won't get a perfect seal without it.
3. Inserting taps and waste after fitting the bath. Assemble these to the bath before you fit it.

Securing bath to the wall. I sometimes go a bit further with this. I fit a 2x1.5 batten for the bath to rest on in such a way that the bath can be cradled against the wall, and working from underneath at each end, can insert a screw long enough to go though the batten and into the timber in the underside of the bath rim. Be careful to choose a screw that will not penetrate the fibreglass though. Free corners are then propped with some 2x2 or similar. These props can be crossbraced or incorporated into a frame to fix hardibacker and tiles onto.

Before I fix the bath in place I pump a thick bead of silicone around the edges of the bath that are to come into contact with the wall. This is not the final seal but works to form a first seal. If the tiles are not in the way then you can top this up.

I know I'm in a minority here but if possible I tile before I fit the bath. To get the horizontal line I set the bath into position, level it up then mark the wall a couple of mm above the surface of the bath. I them remove the bath, batten to this line and tile.

When I fit the bath, because I silicone on the edge of the bath, the seal is in place. After the bath is secure I then seal between the bath and tiles as normal. This achieves 2 seals.

The advantages are that I don't have to worry about getting adhesive or grout into the bath and can get right up to the job without having to get into the bath myself. Also I'm not relying on the top of the bath to get my straight line for the tiles, or having to batten a tile above, wait for the adhesive to dry then do the last run.

Dust sheets tend to end up in a crumpled heap in the bottom of the bath, and bath boards can get in the way of tiling.

Assembling the legs etc is strightforward, just make sure you use the right screws at the base of the bath, otherwise you will hole it.

[whitebeam]

Remember that Alberta is from the Canada different rules apply, If your've never watched Holmes on homes there are permits for when work is carried on all propertys, So you can't really compare the two.

[cornish_crofter]

Remember that Alberta is from the Canada different rules apply, If your've never watched Holmes on homes there are permits for when work is carried on all propertys, So you can't really compare the two.

D'oh so he is!

Sorry Alberta I can't disagree with you

[AllurePTS]

Good technique mate ....I would thoroughly disagree about the silicon though ....you even said "despite what the manufacturers tell you" !!!! .....the manufacturers tell you not to use it for a reason - because many seals these days are made from materials that are far more complex than standard rubber ......often silicon can PREVENT a proper seal AND/OR, cause the seal material to degrade prematurely !!! .....personally, I follow the manufacturers instructions, and leave the bath panel till the very last job ...that gives me plenty time to test the plumbing working in varying situations ....BEFORE I put it to bed

[cornish_crofter]

OK we can agree to disagree about the silicone. One option you've got is to leave out the rubber washer and just seal against the plastic flange. I suspect (but I could be wrong) that silicone attacking the seals is more of an issue before the solicone cures. Some cheap silicones don't cure properly and hence will always present an issue, but something like Dow Corning 785 cures well within 24 hours.

As for the bath panel, you're right. I don't think I mentioned the bath panel as an item in its own right. I was talking about a prop for a free corner, that may form part of a panel.

I would agree that you would want to test the plumbing before putting the panel in place.