Tiling On Asbetos

[farlo]

Hi everyone, the inlaws have asked if i'll tile their bathroom, after closer inspection, 2 of the internal walls are asbestos sheets.
Should these be removed by a pro first and replaced or would I be ok tiling straight onto them?
Cheers Rob

[charlie1]

Im no expert but i think these shiould be removed by a pro.
How do you know they are asbestos?

[andersontiling]

seems strange in this day and age asbestos on the walls are you sure its not white fire board which is very similar in appearance??

[oldgit]

if it is asbestos it will cost a fair amount to have it taken out.
the thing with asbestos is its not dangerous in a solid state,its only when its in dust form.
also not all asbestos is seriously dangerous,and your walls if they are asbestos will be fine.
a lot of old artex contains asbestos.
just keep the angle grinder off the high spots

[farlo]

Cheers everyone, not 100% sure they're asbestos however visually I would think they are, the house is a terraced built around early 1900's so it could be anything. So am I correct in saying as long as the wall is kept in tact it should be ok to tile on?

Rob

[Fred]

I think you can contact the local council and they can assist in identifying the material. I know that contractors have to have a licence to even touch it. Best be safe than sorry mate.

[oldgit]

Cheers everyone, not 100% sure they're asbestos however visually I would think they are, the house is a terraced built around early 1900's so it could be anything. So am I correct in saying as long as the wall is kept in tact it should be ok to tile on?

Rob

yes it will be fine....if you contact the council get your cheque book out as well.

[oldgit]

Cheers everyone, not 100% sure they're asbestos however visually I would think they are, the house is a terraced built around early 1900's so it could be anything. So am I correct in saying as long as the wall is kept in tact it should be ok to tile on?

Rob

the walls will want either dot and dab plaster boarding or backer board or similar.
the asbestos type boarding you have tends to be very thin.

[cornish_crofter]

If the asbestos is securely fixed to the wall then one idea worth considering is to fix the plasterboard on top of the asbestos with drywall screws going through the asbestos into the substrait behind, whether it be wooden battons or masonery.

This isn't as stupid as it sounds. The tiny amount of asbestos that is disturbed will be behind the plasterboard so it is unlikely that any dust or disturbed asbestos will get to you.

[oldgit]

If the asbestos is securely fixed to the wall then one idea worth considering is to fix the plasterboard on top of the asbestos with drywall screws going through the asbestos into the substrait behind, whether it be wooden battons or masonery.

This isn't as stupid as it sounds. The tiny amount of asbestos that is disturbed will be behind the plasterboard so it is unlikely that any dust or disturbed asbestos will get to you.

best way imo,only problem is some may worry about even the slightest disturbance,the worry over asbestos is much exaggerated,how many garages are still standing that are asbestos,if they were that dangerous they would be removed for free,it costs about £5000 just to remove a garage with walls and roof made from asbestos.

[cornish_crofter]

There is an HSE book concerning working with asbestos. It has generic risk assessments and method statements for almost every situation you could come accross.

IIRC there is a similar process in there to what I have dscribed. I suspect the only thing it mentions that I have not is perhaps the use of water or special vacuum to contain dust whilst drilling.

Having said that Farlo would just want to use extra long plasterboard screws to hit the battons if that's what the sheet is fixed against. No drill needed for these.

If he has to go into masonery then on reflection I would advise him to dampen the area to be drilled with water, then use a specalist vacuum cleaner (special filter) that can be hired for this job.

Just to be absolutely squeaky he may seal the edges/joins of the plasterboard with mastic.

[whitebeam]

"At least 3,500 people in Great Britain die each year from mesothelioma and asbestos related lung cancer as a result of past exposure to asbestoshardened)" Just because you don't see it dos'nt mean it's not there

[GazTech]

Wait for the Mapei guy...I,m sure they will have a suitable solution.....

[cornish_crofter]

"At least 3,500 people in Great Britain die each year from mesothelioma and asbestos related lung cancer as a result of past exposure to asbestoshardened)" Just because you don't see it dos'nt mean it's not there

Couldn't agree more.

That's not to say that there are no safe ways of working with it.

The HSE book that I mention has several safe risk assessments and method statements. This method is one that puts a physical barrier between an undisturbed sheet and the operator. Even when drilling the operator is protected (provided he wears the appropriate PPE) by the use of water and specialist dust extraction.

This is the less harmful asbestos sheet we aretalking here. If it were blue asbestos as used in pipe lagging then he would require by law to get in a specialist contractor.

[oldgit]

"At least 3,500 people in Great Britain die each year from mesothelioma and asbestos related lung cancer as a result of past exposure to asbestoshardened)" Just because you don't see it dos'nt mean it's not there

yes and this number may well rise but that because it was still being used up till the 80s, now its not being used it will only kill those who used it up until that period.
you must bear in mind that where you read these stats is a asbestos surveyor so they have an interest in scaremongering people.
that said they are facts.

[whitebeam]

yes and this number may well rise but that because it was still being used up till the 80s, now its not being used it will only kill those who used it up until that period.
you must bear in mind that where you read these stats is a asbestos surveyor so they have an interest in scaremongering people.
that said they are facts.

Got it from the NHS website

[oldgit]

Got it from the NHS website

if you google this part (At least 3,500 people in Great Britain die each year from mesothelioma and asbestos related lung cance)of your post it points to this website.the 3rd paragraph uses that exact line.
Asbestos surveying and asbestos removal - JDB Asbestos Surveyors - Bradford
but i suppose they nicked it from the nhs site.
but if you read the link it will tell you more as to why there are still people dying from asbestoses.

[oldgit]

i just searched that sentence again and loads of sites use that same sentence.so it seems none have done there homework and just copied it from elsewhere.

[whitebeam]

I know why, A particle is released but this dos'nt happen until 40-50 years later after breathing asbestos it then attacks the nervous system but there is no cure because they cannot find it.
This was told to me from someone suffering from the condition

Agree or disagree there's bound to somethink new in the future

[oldgit]

[quote=whitebeam;127791]I know why, A particle is released but this dos'nt happen until 40-50 years later after breathing asbestos it then attacks the nervous system but there is no cure because they cannot find it.
This was told to me from someone suffering from the condition

ive seen many times what it does to people,i also have a few friends who remove it for a living and most asbestos will not harm you unless it becomes airborne ie: powder,sheet is fairly safe as it is but the people who made the sheets will suffer or are dead from asbestoses.
the problem is it costs a fortune to remove it and you should be able to get a grant or something to assist in its removal but you cant.

[whitebeam]

[quote=oldgit;127801][quote=whitebeam;127791]I know why, A particle is released but this dos'nt happen until 40-50 years later after breathing asbestos it then attacks the nervous system but there is no cure because they cannot find it.
This was told to me from someone suffering from the condition

ive seen many times what it does to people,i also have a few friends who remove it for a living and most asbestos will not harm you unless it becomes airborne ie: powder,sheet is fairly safe as it is but the people who made the sheets will suffer or are dead from asbestoses.
the problem is it costs a fortune to remove it and you should be able to get a grant or something to assist in its removal but you cant.[/quote

It's a sad state of affairs mate

[cornish_crofter]

The problem with asbestos is that people associate the word 'asbestos' with the word 'cost' and the word 'extortion'.

There are several companies out there who are riding on the back of scaremongering. Many of them have been known to 'identify' asbestos where there isn't any.

As Whitebeme says, just because you can't see it it doesn't mean to say it can't kill you.

Also, unlike other workplace injuries or conditions, it doesn't manifest itself for decades, so it's hard to pinpoint the incident or even the time period when the relevent exposure occurred.

Taking that on board, to some it may be a bit like the dentist taking x rays of your teeth, or a radiographer at work. The patient has to be at the business end of the camera, otherwise the exercise would be pointless. But we also know that occasional exposure to X ray is not an issue. However the medic disappears behind his glass screen for very good reason, repeated exposure is an issue and he knows it.

Having said that I suspect that most of the people who are suffering from the effects have worked with the product for a large part of their working life. Also, most of the exposures that have had issues are likely to have been to the blue asbestos. This has a much higher concentration of asbestos, and apparently one fibre in your lungs is likely to do the damage. White asbestos, as in that used for sheet material, is far less likely to harm you as you would need hundreds or thousands of fibres in your lungs to be at the same risk.

By and large commercial contractors are pretty good in dealing with this issue by the book. This is largely helped by carrot and stick approach. The stick is the threat of prosecution under the HASAW Act. The carrot is County Councils, like Cornwall County Council who have adopted a policy of funding asbestos removal, even if no provision is made in the contract.

The problem is with domestic dwellings, where some people simply cannot identify asbestos and others pefer not to.

Oldgit is right in that whilst successive governments and councils are unlikely to provide grant aid for its removal, people are going to take the view that it poses no immediate danger and that DIY or no removal when competent removal is necessary will do. That is assuming that the home owner or tenant or landlord recognises it.

We all see this in customer's houses all the time with other issues like electrics or plumbing. If it works, don't fix it, spend the money on a nice new kitchen instead that people can see.

It strikes me that rather than pumping all this money into insulating homes, the government really should consider identifying properties that are likely to contain asbestos, surveying them and grant aiding cost effective solutions.

Such solutions would not necessarily involve removal of the material, but could range from visual identification and making safe (for items such as tanks in the loft - wrap it up, label it and put it out of reach) to complete removal followed by deep clean, in the case of a fire wall.

If it were widely known that grants were available for asbestos removal then people wouldn't be tempted to hide their problems, storing them up for future generations.

[whitebeam]

Great post mate

[farlo]

Hi....thanks for the advice, the method you've mentioned does make good practical sense...thanks for all your help and advice