quarry tile floor

[nathnita]

Hi again
Another quarry tile question!

In the hall area(red/black tiles,6x6) most of the red are light pink/white with age/wear? most of the surface has deteriated.Black are o.k.colour.

They seem to be laid on sand-no adhesive.

Will these 'clean' up and what should I seal with bearing in mind they are direct on sand?

thanks again

Nathan

[frankenfurter]

Hi Nathan,

Any photos pal? They really do speak a 1000 words

The base will probably be a lime mortar that has over time deteriorated, giving the appearance of sand or compressed sand. The white could be a few things but without seeing photos it'd be guess work.

Sealing is a little dependant on how porous the tiles have become over time. Something simple like HG impregnator and HG Golvpolish is quite popular.

[nathnita]

Will send tomorrow when I get a new phone cable
Cheers
Nathan

[frankenfurter]

Look forward to seeing them.

[MICK the Tiler]

An impregnating sealer would be your best bet, although the pics WOULD! come in handy

[nathnita]

Hi
Photos as promised attachment

Cheers
Nathan

[frankenfurter]

Hi Nathan,

Pretty small photos but it looks like efflorescence on the tiles, this can be removed, but it takes quite a bit of work and often in several passes. Does the floor have a history of damp? Must have been pretty damp at some stage with the lime mortar degrading to sand, any idea when it was last damp/wet?

In all honesty by time you've paid for the correct products to remove the efflorescence, clean and seal the floor, plus your time - you could get a restorer in and let them worry about it.

[nathnita]

Still wouldnt mind giving it a go! or could I make it worse?

Cheers

Nathan

[frankenfurter]

This is a very simple method of trying to solve the problem, must point out that I would do it this way or use the same products, but I have the benefit of the products and equipment to be able to do it differently. So I have to advise the DIY way

Nathan, It looks like you've been removing carpet that has covered the tiles and probably prevented them from airing and drying out sufficiently.

Initially you'd be wise just to get all the old floor covering up and out the way. If there's any thick powdery white powder, vac that up and follow up with a stiff scrubbing brush. This is just to remove the old dry efflorescence that is laying on the tile, vac what comes up.

If this tactic is working but leaving some left behind then you may need to repeat.

Then I would leave the floor for a few days to air out and see if the efflorescence reappears. If the efflorescence does reappear then further investigation would be required as either there's still damp in the tiles or the mortar bed, so you'd either have to remedy the source of the damp and leave it to dry (preferred option) or apply products that inhibit the efflorescence; I've tested loads and never been impressed by any of them.

If no efflorescence reappears then again a scrubbing brush and lithofin KF victorian tile cleaner will remove a lot of the dirt, you'd be wise not to let the product dwell for too long, no more than a couple of minutes or you could reactivate the efflorescence. Work in small areas and use more than one pass.

[GazTech]

When ready to fix your tiles our sponsor have the perfect adhesive

[TilingLogistics]

This is a very simple method of trying to solve the problem, must point out that I would do it this way or use the same products, but I have the benefit of the products and equipment to be able to do it differently. So I have to advise the DIY way

Nathan, It looks like you've been removing carpet that has covered the tiles and probably prevented them from airing and drying out sufficiently.

Initially you'd be wise just to get all the old floor covering up and out the way. If there's any thick powdery white powder, vac that up and follow up with a stiff scrubbing brush. This is just to remove the old dry efflorescence that is laying on the tile, vac what comes up.

If this tactic is working but leaving some left behind then you may need to repeat.

Then I would leave the floor for a few days to air out and see if the efflorescence reappears. If the efflorescence does reappear then further investigation would be required as either there's still damp in the tiles or the mortar bed, so you'd either have to remedy the source of the damp and leave it to dry (preferred option) or apply products that inhibit the efflorescence; I've tested loads and never been impressed by any of them.

If no efflorescence reappears then again a scrubbing brush and lithofin KF victorian tile cleaner will remove a lot of the dirt, you'd be wise not to let the product dwell for too long, no more than a couple of minutes or you could reactivate the efflorescence. Work in small areas and use more than one pass.

Frankenfurter,

Have you tried Aqua Mix Eff Ex? I have had a lot of success with it in this situation!

Kev

[nathnita]

Thanks for advisemore info!Havent removed any covering-dont think it has ever been coveredI have only "owned'' the property for 3 months but first viewed nearly a year ago- exposed thenIts an old farmhouse-at least 300yrs oldWould i use adhesive to relay? grade II*?Nathan

[nathnita]

Just to add:i've just run my finger over the top and the white patches are where the tile has deteriated-the top had a coating on it, as if painted?would these tiles have originally had a top coating or the same clay? right though? I know this is more of a history question but with the experience out there...do quarries usually have a finish on them when newThanks againNathan

[frankenfurter]

Hi Nathan,

Any chance those images can be made larger? They are only an inch across on my screen, bit of a strain on my old eyes. I thought the second image showed a curled back carpet?

The tiles should be the same colour throughout. Not unheard-of for people to paint tiles though, damn loonies!

If the tiles are as old as the house, they could be laid on compressed sand, some of the churches I've worked on were sand. And tiles maybe 'winter' tiles where the clay slabs were left outside over winter to break down the internal lumps of clay. - If this the case Nathan, you be wise not to even contemplate DIY.

@Kev,

My son's a chemical scientist, he creates all our cleaning and sealing products and over the years we've tested pretty much every brand going both on new tiles, original tiles and by my son in the lab against our stuff; nothing comes close. But our products are designed for one type of tile only, they don't need to be soft and neutral like the natural stone stuff, so they'll always be more effective. But we've spent £1000's on development.

I've used EFF-Ex and though not blown away with it I find it pretty good, better than most of their range of which I only rate two items (which regard to victorian restoration)- Ultrasolv and SCR.

Cheers,

Frank

[whitebeam]

I have known people to paint them when they get a bit dull

[TilingLogistics]

Hi Nathan,

Any chance those images can be made larger? They are only an inch across on my screen, bit of a strain on my old eyes. I thought the second image showed a curled back carpet?

The tiles should be the same colour throughout. Not unheard-of for people to paint tiles though, damn loonies!

If the tiles are as old as the house, they could be laid on compressed sand, some of the churches I've worked on were sand. And tiles maybe 'winter' tiles where the clay slabs were left outside over winter to break down the internal lumps of clay. - If this the case Nathan, you be wise not to even contemplate DIY.

@Kev,

My son's a chemical scientist, he creates all our cleaning and sealing products and over the years we've tested pretty much every brand going both on new tiles, original tiles and by my son in the lab against our stuff; nothing comes close. But our products are designed for one type of tile only, they don't need to be soft and neutral like the natural stone stuff, so they'll always be more effective. But we've spent £1000's on development.

I've used EFF-Ex and though not blown away with it I find it pretty good, better than most of their range of which I only rate two items (which regard to victorian restoration)- Ultrasolv and SCR.

Cheers,

Frank

Frank,

Take a good look at Extreme then mate! Relatively new in the range but I am getting fantastic results on Geo's with it. A bit like a Phos Acid/Nanoscrub/Heavy Duty Tile and Grout all in one mix but it copes well with ingrained dirt/soot/rust stains Just done a test on a Minton Black and White with it! Looked like new after a 1 hour dwell time

Kev

Kev

[nathnita]

larger photos

Its not carpet-its where ive taken up a section of sinking tiles

Cheers

Nathan

[frankenfurter]

Where abouts are you based Nathan?

[nathnita]

Tarporley in Cheshire, not far from Chester

[TilingLogistics]

Nathan,

You seem to have three issues here. Firstly you have a failing/totally failed substrate. Secondly you subsequently have loose tiles, Thirdly you seem to have efflorescence on a big scale.

You are out of your depth here in my opinion! You need a professional to do it. I know a few good tilers who would walk from that job. Good Luck

Kev

[frankenfurter]

As Kev has rightly pointed it's a job for a pro, one that requires an indepth survey to determine the correct way to restore the floor. As many will I'm sure agree, these floors are our heritage and works of art; even if you have to save a little to get a specialist in, it would be worth without question.

[nathnita]

Thanks for all replies

I believe in conservation big time-saving the floor is my ONLY option, although I dont think its as bad as it seems (i have the luxury of being in situ).The floor is solid in 9/10 of area-only loose/sinking in one area 2ftx2ft out of 25sq mts
The pervious owners had been here for over 100 yrs probably 200 and probably had a large rug on it permenantly.
Although I have renovated several listed properties I havent tackled one like this.
Obvious next question............

Does anyone know a SPECIALIST in Cheshire!!!!

Cheers to all

Nathan

[TilingLogistics]

[quote=nathnita;127935]Thanks for all replies

I believe in conservation big time-saving the floor is my ONLY option, although I dont think its as bad as it seems (i have the luxury of being in situ).The floor is solid in 9/10 of area-only loose/sinking in one area 2ftx2ft out of 25sq mts
The pervious owners had been here for over 100 yrs probably 200 and probably had a large rug on it permenantly.
Although I have renovated several listed properties I havent tackled one like this.
Obvious next question............

Does anyone know a SPECIALIST in Cheshire!!!!

Cheers to all

Nathan,

I cover the whole of the UK but, I am fully booked and could not look to undertake that job until late Feb/early March 2009. Maybe Frank could look at it for you? I don't know how booked he is? If he can't help then I can point you in the direction of a company in Liverpool who could do it but they may have the same time constraint problems but maybe they can help

Kev