Help!: Help with limestone

[dahagsta]

Got myself 15m2 of limestone to lay and was after some great advice before i start. I've looked around this forum and got bits of advice here and there but was after it all as advice to do the job from start to finish.

12mm tiles onto a wooden kitchen floor. Was going to lay down 5mm ply screwed 300mm centres.

What adhesive do i need, what/how do i seal the tiles i.e before i lay or after. What about cutting, does the water in the cutter stain the tile.

This is the 1st time i've layed a floor with a natural stone so i am in need of advice to do the job all the way. Sorry if i've waffled on.

[TilingLogistics]

You cannot use 5mm ply, BS states 15mm but you cannot get that so it has to be 18mm. Your alternative if you want to stay thinner is to use nomoreply or backer boards.

You have given us the thickness of the stone but no dimensions so in order to give you the correct advice regarding adhesive we need the measurements.

What sort of finish on the limestone, honed or polished? Do you know the name of it? All this helps regarding the best advice regarding sealer/presealers!

A bit more info and I can give you step by step help

Kev

[CCTiling]

Hi Mate. Firstly I would laying 18mm ply for maximum strength and the adhesive manufacturer will usually only guarentee your work if you do this. I would use Bal rapid set flexible white as the adhesive. If you don't use a rapid set it may stain the limestone. Sealing the stone is carried out before and after grouting and you can buy a limestone sealer from most tiles shops. Topps sell a limestone sealer by Fila. If you use this product it's just the matter of brushing it on or using a roller then after a few hours just buffing the tiles. Use a flexible grout. I usually go for a grout best matching the colour of the tile but that would be upto the customer and then seal again after grouting. Hope this helps. Good luck

[Grace'sDad]

First off - 15sqm is a reasonable area - check that there is no or very little deflection (bounce) in the floor - if there is then fix it 1st. Too much deflection will break the stone.

Don't ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever EVER use 5mm ply (or any ply with stone - my opinion only here) 5mm ply will do stuff all to help but will do a lot to speed up ruining the floor!

If the floor is rigid enough, I would recommend fixing 10mm hardibacker boards as per the instructions - basically glued and screwed.

Adhesive - must be white to avoid staining and flexible, cement based. I use BAL rapidset flexible but you could use a single part flexible which will give you a longer bucket life. Use a proper flooring trowel. No need to seal before fixing as long as you work cleanly - keep a bucket and sponge to hand to wipe up any stray adhesive. Allow to set, clean 1st, allow to dry and then seal maybe twice as required before grouting.

As for cuts - all cuts have to be wet, unless you are a dab hand with an angle grinder?!

Word of advice - don't drag your bucket around on limestone - it can scratch easily!

Do it right - take your time - get it right and enjoy the results.
Use ply - cut corners and rush - BIG regrets!

[grumpygrouter]

I personally have got to the stage where I have decided not to lay natural stone on a wooden floor without a decoupling membrane. Don't want any uncertainty as timber floors do have potential for a lot of movement. This would be laid on top of the strengthening ply overlay.

[TilingLogistics]

I personally have got to the stage where I have decided not to lay natural stone on a wooden floor without a decoupling membrane. Don't want any uncertainty as timber floors do have potential for a lot of movement. This would be laid on top of the strengthening ply overlay.

I would agree with you there Grumps but it has to be sold to the customer. I used to carry a small piece of ditra with me and a house brick to demonstrate that usually sold it to them

Kev

[CCTiling]

I personally have got to the stage where I have decided not to lay natural stone on a wooden floor without a decoupling membrane. Don't want any uncertainty as timber floors do have potential for a lot of movement. This would be laid on top of the strengthening ply overlay.

Hey Grumps. Haven't used this method before. Would you still have to lay 18mm ply to strengthen the floor or could you go less coz of membrane?? What thickness is the membrane and where would one buy it from?? Cheers Ross

[Alberta Stone]

Schluter makes the polyethylene membrane, but the chlorinated polyethylene material is vastly superior.

NobleSeal® TS

Thin-set waterproofing membrane


Noble Deck

Exterior thin-bed waterproofing and crack isolation


ditra is a good product and works very well for natural stone that is fragile.

[Branty]

I would agree with you there Grumps but it has to be sold to the customer. I used to carry a small piece of ditra with me and a house brick to demonstrate that usually sold it to them

Kev

How does that work?

[TilingLogistics]

How does that work?

Stuck the Ditra to the brick then a piece of tile to the ditra showed them the movement and the dovetails in the ditra and the way it worked. Had it fixed to ply first but kept losing it in the van So did it on a brick and it doubled up as a door stop for the garage door as well and i never lost it

Kev

[grumpygrouter]

Hey Grumps. Haven't used this method before. Would you still have to lay 18mm ply to strengthen the floor or could you go less coz of membrane?? What thickness is the membrane and where would one buy it from?? Cheers Ross

Ditra/durabase is about 3mm thick. The 18mm ply adds strength to reduce deflection which ditra/durabase has no effect on. It is the lateral movement of the timber that may cause the problem due to changes in atmospheric conditions.

For Durabase, check out our friend Wetdecs, or for Ditra CTD if you have one in your area.

[CCTiling]

Thx mate. I have a CTD so it's worth mentioning to my future customers about the product.

[Dave]

Thx mate. I have a CTD so it's worth mentioning to my future customers about the product.

Have a read of this as well it help you understand the product more.....


Schlüter-DITRA - Schlüter-Systems

[dahagsta]

You cannot use 5mm ply, BS states 15mm but you cannot get that so it has to be 18mm. Your alternative if you want to stay thinner is to use nomoreply or backer boards.

You have given us the thickness of the stone but no dimensions so in order to give you the correct advice regarding adhesive we need the measurements.

What sort of finish on the limestone, honed or polished? Do you know the name of it? All this helps regarding the best advice regarding sealer/presealers!

A bit more info and I can give you step by step help

Kev

Thanks for all the help and to answer your questions kev the tiles are portugese white limestone honed finish 12mm 610mm x 406mm. Hope thats enough info.

[TilingLogistics]

Thanks for all the help and to answer your questions kev the tiles are portugese white limestone honed finish 12mm 610mm x 406mm. Hope thats enough info.

Because of the size of the tiles I think I would definately spend the money on this one and either go with BAL FastFlex or Similar or use a decoupling Membrane such as Ditra or Durabase and then a single part flex. I would probably back butter as well to be absolute belt and braces. Work clean sponging off as you go. If you are really worried you could use a temporary sealer to preseal and that will literally come off as you wash off the grout. Deffo Flexible grout. If you are using silicone make sure its neutral so it doesn't affect the stone.

As for sealing I think i would seal with Aqua Mix Sealers Choice Gold if you want the colour left identical or Ultra Solve if you want it a shade darker. Failing that Enrich & Seal if you want them enhancing. Try the three on an offcut first

Kev

[Dave]

Sorry, but you took on a limestone floor and never done one before, took me years of learning with craftsmen how to do that properly, good luck.

BTW watch some of the advice you are getting on here

.

I hope that comment is meant in a good way...

[Grace'sDad]

Yes, it would be interesting to know WHICH advice he thinks is questionable.
Without being sarcastic here, anyone who has learnt the craft from specialists or is a specialist will have some valuable insights - so pass 'em on!!!