Mosaic Mike - Grouting question

[Mosaic Mike]

Hello All, Just joined the site as it looks like there are tons of you out there who know what they are talking about...
I wanted to ask a few questions about the viability of using a water and PVA mix when grouting ceramic wall tiles used for mosaic.
Is this a silly idea and totally unnecessary?
Would it have any effect on grout discolouration?
Would it add any waterproofing benefit for ceramic wall tiles set into furniture and used outdoors?
Any thoughts greatly appreciated
Mike

[grumpygrouter]

Mike I have moved your post to this part of the forum, it will get more responses here.

PVA has no place in ceramic tiling I am afraid as you will discover the more you read the posts onthis forum.

You don't say what type/make of grout you are using. Most cementitious grouts can have added properties by using an "admix" with the grout. BAL for instance have a product called GT1 which when used with their normal grouts gives added flexibility and more water resistance. Ardex have a similar product.

What sort of discolouration is it, mould or something else?

[Sir Ramic]

And Mapei have a great colour range and seem to hold the colour well.

[Mosaic Mike]

Thanks to you both. I will research these additives from BAL and Ardex. Most of the discolouration I had put down to limescale, caused when the tiled tables have been left out in the English weather, but I wasn't sure if the PVA addition to the water when mixing might be the culprit.
Mike

[grumpygrouter]

It is possible the problem you are suffering is effloresance which may not be grout related at all. This is when the salts work their way to the surface because of moisture evaporating back out to the surface. Does it clean off and then keeps coming back?

[Droopy]

If the problem is efflorescence, you could change to using BAL Microcolour.
This range comes in 14 colours (I think there are 2 new colours recently added) all of which are efflorescence free.

[Mosaic Mike]

It does clean off to some extent when scrubbing using a Plasplugs tile cleaner. It does tend to leave some speckled effect in the grout gaps. This doesn't happen all the time...
Not sure I have come across efflorecence before (or at least not known this could be what is happenning).
Is it solved by longer adhesive drying times, or some other additive/sealer before grouting...?
Mike

[grumpygrouter]

Good question Mike, wait to see what James says from Bal.

[GazTech]

It does clean off to some extent when scrubbing using a Plasplugs tile cleaner. It does tend to leave some speckled effect in the grout gaps. This doesn't happen all the time...
Not sure I have come across efflorecence before (or at least not known this could be what is happenning).
Is it solved by longer adhesive drying times, or some other additive/sealer before grouting...?
Mike

Any grouts which contain Portland cement can be prone to efflorescence. The salt created on the surface, can be removed. Some grouts which like James sais can be eff/ free...these have a different cement in which this does not occurr , but can also stop them from being suitable for total immersion...Gaz

[Mosaic Mike]

Have just been looking at the BAL Microcolour range - which look good. I am keen to retain the charcoal or black coloured grout that I use at the moment as this looks the best with my mosaics.
I am keen to know whether James thinks I need a sealer also. I am trying to get a handle on what other extras would be recommended to ensure that I retain the waterproofing/frost resistance in a garden table (outside all year round) for as long as possible -being reasonably cost ineffective for a small business!

[grumpygrouter]

Not wanting to step on toes here Mike but also check out Mapei Ultracolor Plus for black grout. Brilliant stuff! (sorry BAL guys!)

[deanotile]

Fight Fight Fight Fight Fight

[Mosaic Mike]

Did check out the Malpei stuff, and that also looks good as it too comes in Black...thanks Grumpy (quite helpful though...)
Looking at the Unibond Tile on Floors Quick Set waterproof grout I use, I cannot see whether this contains Portland Cement or not... It does sound like I should be looking at testing at least one other brand to check out the reactions.
Many thanks I have quite a bit to think about overnight!
Mike

[GazTech]

Not wanting to step on toes here Mike but also check out Mapei Ultracolor Plus for black grout. Brilliant stuff! (sorry BAL guys!)

Ref my last post...as a BAL guy, no product was mentioned only facts....Gaz

[grumpygrouter]

Ref my last post...as a BAL guy, no product was mentioned only facts....Gaz

Very true mate!

[Mosaic Mike]

Have only been here a day and already I seem to be rattling feathers... sorry guys

[grumpygrouter]

Have only been here a day and already I seem to be rattling feathers... sorry guys

No you aren't, don't worry about it.

[Mosaic Mike]

I will sleep on this tonight and hopefully have enlightening dreams....

[GazTech]

Have only been here a day and already I seem to be rattling feathers... sorry guys

Russ and I are conditioned to make these forums totally impartial....Knowledge is the power, the choice is then yours to make....Gaz
(just ensure it is eff/free), most reputable manufactureres make one....

[deanotile]

Owww come on Fight Fight Fight Fight Fight

[DARRELL]

I would use epoxy resin grout. You won't go wrong with the english weather discolouring it.

[Droopy]

I wouln't think you would need a sealer with the Mircrocolour grouts, Mike.
The are also fine for exterior applications. But if you wanted to seal them too, I don't think that would be a problem.

But as Darrel says, if you are worried about staining or exposure to the elements, for piece of mind alone, it may well be better if you use an epoxy based grout instead.
That way you are going top of the tree as far as spec' is concerned.
A bit more involved in cost and effort, but well worth it.

[garythetiler]

this post is for james and gaz, you said the bal micro grout was efflouresence free what happens if the effloresence is coming from the substrate and is being drawn up from it being over wetted will the bal micro colour hold this back?

[Droopy]

this post is for james and gaz, you said the bal micro grout was efflouresence free what happens if the effloresence is coming from the substrate and is being drawn up from it being over wetted will the bal micro colour hold this back?

Very good question Gary.
And tbh, I can't answer it, as I have never thought to ask it myself to get the answer.

But I guess it just means that the efflorescence will not come from the cement in the grout.
So I am not going to claim that it will stop any other efflorescence bleeding through, untill I know for sure whether it does or not.

This is my first week on the job as a BAL PST, so I have still got a lot to learn myself.

Sorry, mate.

[garythetiler]

Very good question Gary.
And tbh, I can't answer it, as I have never thought to ask it myself to get the answer.

But I guess it just means that the efflorescence will not come from the cement in the grout.
So I am not going to claim that it will stop any other efflorescence bleeding through, untill I know for sure whether it does or not.

This is my first week on the job as a BAL PST, so I have still got a lot to learn myself.

Sorry, mate.

thanks for such an honest reply james good luck with bal, you are onto a winner, bal are a 1st class company with good products

[Droopy]

thanks for such an honest reply james good luck with bal, you are onto a winner, bal are a 1st class company with good products

Thanks Gary

[grumpygrouter]

thanks for such an honest reply james good luck with bal, you are onto a winner, bal are a 1st class company with good products

makes up for the Rick Astley prank........

[Droopy]

makes up for the Rick Astley prank........

Phewww, thought I would never get out the doghouse for that one.

[pt44]

Just a thought - but would a sealant such as Sealguard help? I've used it in wetrooms - not sure if its suitable for use outdoors. But as a waterproofer its very effective.

Paul

[Mosaic Mike]

I will be trialing the epoxy grout available if I can find a dark enough colour. It seems that most on the market are either white, ivory or grey that I have found to date...