Dot & Dab travertine?

[spanky]

I am surprised though that I have only had a couple of responses from the advert for work, given the hard times we are in.

Please bear in mind if you are a Tiler that knows what you are doing then you will have no problems, I am most definately not a hard person to work for, all I want is what I have paid for, no less than any of you.

I sell TV's and I wouldn't dream of selling you a dodgy TV, I don't cut corners, and if a TV I sold you went wrong within a reasonable amount of time I would fix it. Period.

I strive for that good name just like all you lot.

Once I have been told that it is wrong by someone with authority and I have a course of action I can take then buying more tiles is not a problem.

If it takes more than a certain length of time to remove the adhesive than surely it's more cost effective to just buy more tile than messing about with trying to get the adhesive off?

I do not think it would take more than a days work to empty the room of plasterboard and tile, although having removed a few tiles it is entirely possible that the plasterboard will survive. all the tiles I have removed have left absolutley no adhesive on the board, it has all stayed on the tile. I had expected it to rip holes in the board.

The other contractor will end up with the bill unless he sorts it, one way or another I will get this sorted with him.

A fool and his money may be soon parted, but I'm no fool and I will get it back or get it sorted one way or another.

[spanky]

Sorry, I forgot too add.

Grumpy, an excellent honest post, no doubt.

Sure, it is going to be hard work to now put it right, you don't need to tell me that. But I want it right, we made the decision not to move house and that we'd spend some money on this one and stay here until the kids had grown up, that 16 years minimum.

This bathroom needs to last that 16 years, plus the time then required to sell the house.

I do not think it will in it's present state.

These things are sent to try us are they not?

[grumpy]

I know I said my last post but its not fair to leave you with any false hope spanky.So at the risk of upsetting the massive again here is the deal.

On here are people of very different skill levels and only the more experienced ones are suitably skilled to take the job on. So this leaves a considerably smaller piece of cake to bite from. Some have already shown their hands and intimated that they would never dab tiles ( a well worn phrase about a pinch of salt springs to mind) you can see how the piece of cake to bite from is getting smaller spanky cant you? The walls you have may well be like a contour map of the lake district and so who honestly wants to come along and ask you to get the walls put straight enough to tile. Finding a good enough plasterer who is available is like trying to pick tonight’s lottery numbers. Now if the adhesive is cement based it will be a pig of a job to get it off. I hope you can see how this is going spanky.Throw in the mix the fact that by the time a good tiler has removed the tiles clean and prep everything, he could have tile three cushy little kitchens with no hassle and be sat in the pub with the cash in his pocket. Its fair to say 90% of the lads on here would love to help you out and to be perfectly honest it’s very uncomfortable watching you go through this It reflects bad on the tiling industry and the ensuing bun fight shows how passionate people are about their opinions however right or wrong they are. From what I can see so far you seem to be quite a reasonable chap and I’m guessing you had the faint sound of alarm bells ringing well before you came on here. anyone who puts up with someone cutting with an angle grinder in their house doesn’t strike me as an awkward customer but more someone who trustingly put his faith in the wrong person.If I could give any help now I would say take advice from someone and stick with that one person.There is someone on here that is perfect for the role,His advice has always been impeccable in my opinion.I will pm you with his name.Just remember that well worn phrase about to many cooks!
.
And before anyone ask I’m not putting myself forward, maybe spanky will come back on and confirm this for me.

[frostfree]

Well done Grumpy on providing an intelligent, well rounded, well structured and real world viewpoint.

[pacman]

I have bean reading this thread and can honestly say I am shocked. Some of the comments from so-called time served tilers are beyond me. They seam to have missed the point. it may well of been acceptable practise in the fifty’s and sixty’s to dot and dab six inch tiles in sand and cement to solid brick walls (even they had a solid bed) but that is a fare cry from three spots of adhesive on 600 by 400 travertine slabs on to untreated 12mm plasterboard. If you want to stand up in court and try to defend the inexcusable rubbish that was being past of as tiling even though the adhesive manufacturer has said that they do not approve of the methods used then that is your chose but I have no doubt that you will loose. There is a world of difference between bedding a tile out with a bit of extra adhesive to get over imperfections in the wall and doting and dabbing. You really should know better.

[Dave]

Just a note to grumpy..

We appreciate your input and it is very valid to spanky i'm sure....

There are a few internet forums that , shall we say are not very good on there advice...

We strive to run the best tilers forum there is and that's why it is so popular and this you must agree or you wouldn't have found us either...

We know we have varying degress of experiance on here and isn't that what tilers forums are for...to help those that need to get advice and futher there trades...

Your attacks on forums really puzzle me , because if they annoy you that much why on earth have you taken time from your busy schedule to join and take part.?.

I think spanky has had all he can take, regarding advice on how to handle it now
but what gets me is your personal attacks towards this forum and it's members...

We have loads of peeps join who seem to find these type of forums a threat to there lively hoods and then just jump in with insults....

I do not intend to offend you personally but take a step back and see what this forum actually dose for new comers to tiling and members of the public like spanky...

Yes threads can get out of hand with opinions , because peeps do have them but please please do not attack something that has taken hard work and loyalty from members to get where it is today....

If you see a thread like the one about drilling a hole in the ceiling , add your input and say no thats wrong after all thats your opinion......We should not have to police the bad comments unless they are offensive or spam.
If a member see's a post they think is wrong then they say so , well most do anyway....

I thank all for there input in this thread but lets not let this turn into a bitch fest...


P.s... A note to all please think carefully before replying to threads ....

[spanky]

OK, I have taken some external advice and prepared this letter, I know none of you are lawyers, but can you think of anything to add?

__________________________________________________
With reference to the ongoing bathroom installation at *** Road, *** Village, ****-***;


Recently you began the installation of a replacement bathroom, including ancillary works at the above address as per the written quotation. As you are aware, you know we have taken advice on the method of fitment used on the wall tiling and found that they have been fitted using a substandard method, against the advice of both the tile adhesive manufacturer and the British Standard.


The wall tiles are fitted in a way that is unsatisfactory and are not currently “fit for purpose”.


Under the sale of goods and services act 1982 I am entitled to expect work to be carried out using reasonable care and skill. Because of this fault, I must now offer you the opportunity to put this matter right and re-fit / replace the tiles using the correct method at no further expense to us. If you do not confirm how you intend to proceed with this matter and begin the remedial works within 7 days from the date of this letter I will consider that you have breached the contract and employ another contractor to rectify the problem, and then take this any other associated costs over and above that originally quoted, up with you.



Nada Nada Nada



??

[Fekin]

Amen

It's been a good read so far though

[GazTech]

Hi Tony, I'm so sorry you have experienced such difficulies with your project. As a product support technician fo Building Adhesives LTD ( BAL ), and being the market leader in the UK, I can categorically state that spot fixing tiles is not a recognised method within the industry. I hope you can sort this out mutually with your contractor, but if it gets to a stalemate, you can ask TTA to give you an independant inspection. This will of course hod a fee, but the service is there should you require it. Kind regards Gaz

[B]Technical Matters[/B]

The Tile Association has representatives on the committees who write British, European and International Standards on tiles, tile fixing, adhesives and grouts. British Standard BS5385 is the Code of Practice for fixing wall and floor tiles, and we expect all contractor members to work to this standard. The Association offers an independent inspection service based on this standard in all parts of the UK and Eire. For further information about this service contact the Tile Association.
[url=http://www.tiles.org.uk/about/whatwedo.shtml]What the TTA Do[/url]

[LM Ceramics]

is this the longest thread in the tilersforums history 14 pages

[Dave]

Grumpy i am with you on keeping peeps on the straight and narrow but we do not police posts to death..if we altered every post that was wrong info then we would not need replys to correct it...don't you agree.

We are glad you take an interest in making sure things are done right as I and many members do.

My point is that THIS forum tries to rise above the others......

I like you have been in this trade for a lot of years and have back butter fixed tiles to certain substrates ..... the point i personally made in this thread is that spot fixing is not acceptable....bedding tiles IS with the appropiate adhesives..you must have to agree with this grumpy....

This is the type of thread that a lot of new comers can learn from.....

I personally hope you continue to contribute however small it is to these forums but please do not down grade the work being done here to help the community......

Enough said grumps and i thank you for your input.........

[oogabooga]

Seems to be a serious degree of "groupthink" going on here, categorically stating that spotfixing is dangerous etc is nonsense. Even though your British Standards frown upon the practice, it definitely has it's place if done correctly (with cement based adhesive that is - hate that mastic crap)

Now having viewed the photos provided, I would not be happy with that amount of coverage - too little in my opinion. In a perfect situation you wouldn't have to spot fix tiles, however customers aren't always willing to pay to render walls plumb, and rarely are walls truly plumb and flat. When done right the spotting method uses more adhesive than the notched trowel, not less, but means it is easier to plumb the wall (say 8 to 10mm top to bottom) because the blobs should squash out to fill the voids. Think about it this way, if you were to cover the back of the tile completely with a notched trowel, and every trowelled ridge were to come into contact with the wall, you're probably only getting 55% to 70% total adhesive coverage anyway - you still have the valleys between the ridges. The goal is to eliminate lippage, or plumb a wall that is slightly off, not to save money by using less adhesive.

Now having said the above, I'm not defending the tiler in this particular case - the lack of a membrane in a shower and around the tub area seems pretty daft to me - nor am I saying that one should use a method contrary to your country's standards - I merely point out that the technique has merit and will perform just as well as the notched method, but only if done right.