Dot & Dab travertine?

[grumpy]

I will make this my last post on this thread and attempt to deal with each thing in order or importance.
Firstly my credentials
I am a time severed tradesman with nearly 20 years experience in the tiling trade
As a commercial tiler I have completed contracts for the home office,most of my local health authorities many high street names such as M&S safeway.hsbc natwest.I was tiling heated floors in –20 cold rooms 15 years before heated floors came in to domestic applications. I own a number of small businesses 2 of which deal with nothing but the rectification of faulty workmanship by so called qualified tradesman. I have worked for most of the major insurance companies.I have given evidence in court on tiling matters.
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Spanky I’m truly sorry for the bother that you’ve had with bad contractors and poor information on an Internet forum. The one common thread that ironically runs through both problems is inexperience and good intention. On the upside though you have exposed a trader who should not be tiling with his level of knowledge he has at this time. Secondly you have exposed all that’s wrong with the tiling trade just now and thirdly you have seen a little of the dangers of internet forums.
The party line for your problem is to undo everything this person has done and start again. But this gives you two problems saying that and getting it done are two different things altogether, that’s why there isn’t a queue of well meaning tillers at your door. It’s a cr*ppy job to remove 35 meters of tiles and clean them up ready for refitting. You will loose many tiles as they have obviously already cut them. You have a number of choices now but I will deal with the two most likely ones. You stop the work and try and find someone to start again. Then you lay out more money for more tiles and begin the long costly battle through the court. The stress you will go through for what ultimately is something of a gamble isn’t worth it in my view.
Alternatively I would offer this as a possible solution. If your happy with the general appearance of the work and your only problem is the issue of dot and dab fixing you can ask the contractor firstly for sight of his liability insurance.(it is not a legal requirement to have cover) Secondly sit down with him and explain your concerns and ask if he will remove a number of tiles at random so you can see that the tiles have a majority coverage. You can ask him to produce a simple test rig to satisfy your concerns. A rig would take no more than quarter of an hour to put together. Ask is he prepared to supply another tiler to complete the job and tell him you are prepared to wait x weeks for a good tiler to come free. Finally spanky this last comment is based on what I see on the picture of the reverse side of the tile on the floor and nothing else. Any talk of children in danger etc is tabloid type sensationalism, If that is a cement based adhesive and it was fixed to a suitably prepared surface, with that amount of coverage then I would have no problem bathing my kids under it If you want photo evidence of tiles that have been dabbed in bathrooms and are still on the walls years later then let me know and I will get you some. Take a step back from the frenzy that’s gone on here and I still maintain have an informal chat to an architect if your still unsure. That’s me and you done spanky.

Now deanotile one of the biggest problems of Internet forums is that people get very brave because of their animinity. Most insults wouldn’t be said if it was a face-to-face situation. I think its only fair then that if i post a personal insult it is under the following condition, That I make my real name and address known to that person so they can challenge me if they disagree. I await yours!

Now to the massive
To save you the trouble searching here is my original post
There is nothing wrong with dabbing the wall tiles so long as its a cement based adhesive. From the photo you posted it looks like there is at least 75% coverage on the tile and thats good enough. lot of whats been said on this post is inexperience. For those people who have been tiling long enough will remember bal used to sell tools a few years ago and one trowel they had in the range was a 50% coverage. Also the trowel method of fixing is big here in the uk and some other countries but many Mediterranean countries dab tiles. do yourself a favour and speak to an architect for the correct information.

Any tiler with over 10 years experience that says he has never dabbed a tile is a liar.
I have tiled for nearly twenty years and used a number of fixing methods such as solid bed,50% coverage and yes dot and dab.to mention just a few.I have never had a tile fall off ever in nearly 20 years.I have never had to return to a job for fautly workmanship either.
From a personal ponit of view I have huge problems with forums like this
For the following reasons, anyone qualified or not can give advice to another person who may or may not have an ounce of common sense.
It is not outside the realms of possibility that the chap the other day who was advised to drill a hole in the ceiling to let the water out could have plugged a 240v drill in and stood underneath a ceiling full of water all set to drill through the cable supply for the shower. This advice to the best of my knowledge is still posted. I have to ask what’s the point in moderating a forum if your not going to edit dangerous advice. While in this general area I can offer this advise about throwing your dirty water down the drains, It is an offence and you will be prosecuted if caught. I can also say that if I employed you I and I caught you doing this or throwing it behind a bush in the garden then you would be looking for a new job whilst walking home regardless of how far it was!
Finally its just my point of view about the use of forums such as this but since time began it has never good business practice to share the secrets of your trade with the competition. And as we now find ourselves heading into recession why a tradesman would offer a enthusiastic amatuer help in taking the bread from his mouth is beyond me.A four week course doe not make you a tradesman I can just here it being said on these courses that “if you get stuck there are plenty of forums you can go on for good advice”

[kenny]

Excellent response grumpy

[grumpygrouter]

Thank you for your extended response Grumpy.

I would like to ask you where you dispose of your water after the work has been completed. My normal practice is to leave the buckets so the sediments settle to the bottom and then pour the predominantly clean water away down a mains drain outside. You say this is illegal however. What do you do with yours in the domestic environment?

[charlie1]

He wont tell you cos its bad practice to share trade secrets. Ohh nooo.

Grumpy JMO, Being a huge fan of this forum which clearly you are not then why do you tune in?? For a laugh??

[Biddyrider]

if only the clown had purchased a good quality travertine copy he wouldent of had any of these headackes ,looks like tubed paste and no tanking hope he knows these tiles need sealing and re sealing over the years .A fool and his money is always easily parted .Going to court - dont be silly just sort it .Try and take a couple of tiles off ,if its difficult just leave them ,if its easy keep taking them off until its hard .
Then soak the tiles to loosen the adhesive and re fix after cleaning them .use your common sense - nobody will work for sombody who threatens to take people to court at a simple whim get on with it .

[grumpygrouter]

Originally Posted by Biddyrider

if only the clown had purchased a good quality travertine copy he wouldent of had any of these headackes ,looks like tubed paste and no tanking hope he knows these tiles need sealing and re sealing over the years .A fool and his money is always easily parted .Going to court - dont be silly just sort it .Try and take a couple of tiles off ,if its difficult just leave them ,if its easy keep taking them off until its hard .
Then soak the tiles to loosen the adhesive and re fix after cleaning them .use your common sense - nobody will work for sombody who threatens to take people to court at a simple whim get on with it .

The guy has come on here seeking help and advice, comments like that above are not an appropriate response I feel. I don't know if you have read the whole thread but Spanky was concerned that the job was not being done to a satisfactory standard. For the money he was willing to pay he was entitled to have a first class job carried out. Taking someone to court over the issue is certainly not a whim.

Contributions to the forums are always welcome as long as they have value. This one currently does not come within that catagory. Hopefully you will continue to contribute but please keep your posts relevant.

[Oli]

Originally Posted by Biddyrider

if only the clown had purchased a good quality travertine copy he wouldent of had any of these headackes ,looks like tubed paste and no tanking hope he knows these tiles need sealing and re sealing over the years .A fool and his money is always easily parted .Going to court - dont be silly just sort it .Try and take a couple of tiles off ,if its difficult just leave them ,if its easy keep taking them off until its hard .
Then soak the tiles to loosen the adhesive and re fix after cleaning them .use your common sense - nobody will work for sombody who threatens to take people to court at a simple whim get on with it .

Your introductory post on this forum was
I am the only female working in a company called Tilemaze(tile retailers based in Shrewsbury and Telford, both in Shropshire) and I find the information on adhesives, grouts very useful ie what adhesive to use for what surface etc and then I can tell my male colleagues what adhesive they should be selling for each job and amaze them with my knowledge!

You imply in it that you have used the forum to research and increase your knowledge, yet you mock - no insult someone who has less knowledge that you. Maybe if he'd come to your shop "the clown" may have been better advised eh?

If you speak the same way to customers as you post in this forum, you will soon be looking for a new job.

[charlie1]

"a fool and his money are easily parted" You sound as if you are speaking from experience.

[spanky]

And what is it going to look like in 12 months around the shower and bath?

Porous tile with perhaps 50% adhesive coverage & only grout in between?
On 12mm Plasterboard.

[grumpygrouter]

Originally Posted by spanky

And what is it going to look like in 12 months around the shower and bath?

Porous tile with perhaps 50% adhesive coverage & only grout in between?
On 12mm Plasterboard.

Ignore Biddyrider Spanky, she is only trying to elicit a response. Don't give her the satisfaction.

[spanky]

I do understand the thoughts of Internet forums, they give a wonderful feeling of aninimty, I actually think that helps on most occasions.

I do not think I will struggle to find another contractor, times are getting hard and I have money to spend.

Obviously assuming I am told that the work is substandard for the type of tile by someone who has the authority and experience to act as an expert witness then I would feel safe in the knowledge the current contractor will have to sort something out.

I have always said I DO NOT want to go to court, all I want is a bathroom that will last.

The Shower and Bath area should have been waterproofed, I even offered 2 large sheets of Aquaboard and a tanking agent which were both turned down by the contractor as they "never" use them, but also that they have never had any problems.

Anyone who watches various TV programs on DIY matters would find that strange, let alone you lot.

Water is a funny substance, the bringer of life but the destroyer of everything, given time.

I can't believe this threads still going. My mind is made up, if I wanted a shoddy, cheap job I would have paid a couple of guys in the pub to rip out originally, boarded it out myself and had a handy man in to tile it.

That is not what I wanted, nor what I did.

[CJ]

Cracking post Grumpy.