Help!: Outdoor tiling

[jackb]

I am tiling a small outdoor area next to our house and laid a 3" concrete base a couple of weeks ago. The tiles are 30x30cm porcelain and the area is 2.5m by about 75cm with a 12cm wide drain gully running down the middle apart from a 50cm space at one end.

Since there will only be one row of tiles plus a bit extra on each side of the drain I thought I could get away with using a mixture of 3:1 sand/portland cement + 1:1 PVA mix and just stick them straight onto the concrete base.

Is this a bad idea? We don't have a lot of cash to spare but the last thing I want to be doing next summer is the same thing. Any help much appreciated - the other half wants it done yesterday!

[smartile]

I would use 1 part rapid set flexible adhesive if it were me to make sure it bonds as porcelain is dense and needs polymer added adhesives. Dont think sand and cement will hav that effect....are the tiles frost proof?

[jackb]

Thanks for the feedback.
They were sold as outdoor tiles and frost proof. I just noticed on the box it says Eagle Ceramics - Made in China.
When you said 1 part rapid set flexible adhesive, do you mean together with 3:1 sand/portland cement + 1:1 PVA mix as well or do you have any better suggestions.

[mz30]

Originally Posted by jackb

Thanks for the feedback.
They were sold as outdoor tiles and frost proof. I just noticed on the box it says Eagle Ceramics - Made in China.
When you said 1 part rapid set flexible adhesive, do you mean together with 3:1 sand/portland cement + 1:1 PVA mix as well or do you have any better suggestions.

He means just use the adhesive not sand and cement.

[grumpygrouter]

Originally Posted by smartile

I would use 1 part rapid set flexible adhesive if it were me to make sure it bonds as porcelain is dense and needs polymer added adhesives. Dont think sand and cement will hav that effect....are the tiles frost proof?

Porcelain tiles, by definition, are frost proof. Moisture absorption is less than 0.5% so frost should have no effect as moisture will not have penetrated the tile.

[jackb]

Originally Posted by mz30

He means just use the adhesive not sand and cement.

Ouch! I will need to raise the level of the concrete slab with a bit of sand/cement then or it will cost a bomb! Thanks for the feedback !

Originally Posted by jackb

I am tiling a small outdoor area next to our house and laid a 3" concrete base a couple of weeks ago. The tiles are 30x30cm porcelain and the area is 2.5m by about 75cm with a 12cm wide drain gully running down the middle apart from a 50cm space at one end.

Since there will only be one row of tiles plus a bit extra on each side of the drain I thought I could get away with using a mixture of 3:1 sand/portland cement + 1:1 PVA mix and just stick them straight onto the concrete base.

Is this a bad idea? We don't have a lot of cash to spare but the last thing I want to be doing next summer is the same thing. Any help much appreciated - the other half wants it done yesterday!

if you want to go down this road thats fine just use a stronger mix 2.5 to 1 would be fine

[jackb]

Originally Posted by pjtiler

if you want to go down this road thats fine just use a stronger mix 2.5 to 1 would be fine

Thanks, that's the answer I was hoping for. It occurs to me that if any tiles come loose later on I can always stick them back with a bit of adhesive.

cheers

[garythetiler]

you can lay the tiles on to sand and cement, mix sharp sand with ordinary portland cement in a ratio of 4 sand to 1 cement ,mix this semi dry so when you grasp it in you hand it keeps it shape and doesnt crumble . pva should not be used as it is outside and isnt a suitable additive for cement you need to use sbr bond used as an admix i think you will be alright diluting it between 5-1 or 10- 1 depending on the brand you purchase read the container this will help. you will be better off screeding the floor . set your level at you highest point using a wooden lath this will help you if you are an inexperienced screeder then cut a check out of a wooden straight edge the thickness of a tile you can pull this straight edge between the gulley and the top of the wooden lath ,use of a plastic float helps fill any holes that appear as you screed . you must then remove the wooden lath at the the highest point and fill the channel .then mix neat cement with a strong mix of sbr and water to the consistency of wall grout this will be you bonding coat .use a section of king span or some 12mm ply wood as your walking board this will allow you to get onto the bed and tile it with out damaging the bed . tiling takes place as normal i would just use a straight edge and a square on small areas apply the bonding coat(slurry ) with a mosaic trowel and tile as normal and use a beater bloc or mallet to tap them flatgrout after 24 hrs good luck hope this helps

Originally Posted by garythetiler

you can lay the tiles on to sand and cement, mix sharp sand with ordinary portland cement in a ratio of 4 sand to 1 cement ,mix this semi dry so when you grasp it in you hand it keeps it shape and doesnt crumble . pva should not be used as it is outside and isnt a suitable additive for cement you need to use sbr bond used as an admix i think you will be alright diluting it between 5-1 or 10- 1 depending on the brand you purchase read the container this will help. you will be better off screeding the floor . set your level at you highest point using a wooden lath this will help you if you are an inexperienced screeder then cut a check out of a wooden straight edge the thickness of a tile you can pull this straight edge between the gulley and the top of the wooden lath ,use of a plastic float helps fill any holes that appear as you screed . you must then remove the wooden lath at the the highest point and fill the channel .then mix neat cement with a strong mix of sbr and water to the consistency of wall grout this will be you bonding coat .use a section of king span or some 12mm ply wood as your walking board this will allow you to get onto the bed and tile it with out damaging the bed . tiling takes place as normal i would just use a straight edge and a square on small areas apply the bonding coat(slurry ) with a mosaic trowel and tile as normal and use a beater bloc or mallet to tap them flatgrout after 24 hrs good luck hope this helps

thats a lot of messing about he,s only tiling ether side of a gulley
he,ll have in done and dusted in a couple of hours with my method
ether way will do i spose

[jackb]

Originally Posted by garythetiler

you can lay the tiles on to sand and cement, mix sharp sand with ordinary portland cement in a ratio of 4 sand to 1 cement ,mix this semi dry so when you grasp it in you hand it keeps it shape and doesnt crumble . pva should not be used as it is outside and isnt a suitable additive for cement you need to use sbr bond used as an admix i think you will be alright diluting it between 5-1 or 10- 1 depending on the brand you purchase read the container this will help. you will be better off screeding the floor . set your level at you highest point using a wooden lath this will help you if you are an inexperienced screeder then cut a check out of a wooden straight edge the thickness of a tile you can pull this straight edge between the gulley and the top of the wooden lath ,use of a plastic float helps fill any holes that appear as you screed . you must then remove the wooden lath at the the highest point and fill the channel .then mix neat cement with a strong mix of sbr and water to the consistency of wall grout this will be you bonding coat .use a section of king span or some 12mm ply wood as your walking board this will allow you to get onto the bed and tile it with out damaging the bed . tiling takes place as normal i would just use a straight edge and a square on small areas apply the bonding coat(slurry ) with a mosaic trowel and tile as normal and use a beater bloc or mallet to tap them flatgrout after 24 hrs good luck hope this helps

Thanks for taking the time to give an informative and detailed description. I'm sure anyone with the same query will find it very helpful.

However as pjtiler says it is only a small job and space to move around in is also very cramped as the two ends of the section are bounded by walls as is two thirds of one side, and the other side has a 1 foot straight up rise. On top of that I have a slipped disk so the quick and dirty method appeals to me.

If I just set the tiles in a 2:1 sand/cement mixture and any come loose later then hopefully I can just stick them back with the right kind of adhesive or something like you said i.e. cement with a strong mix of sbr and water. I already got the pva (cheapo stuff from Wilkos) so I'm guessing it won't do any harm to use it and at least will make the mixture more workable.

[garythetiler]

Originally Posted by garythetiler

you can lay the tiles on to sand and cement, mix sharp sand with ordinary portland cement in a ratio of 4 sand to 1 cement ,mix this semi dry so when you grasp it in you hand it keeps it shape and doesnt crumble . pva should not be used as it is outside and isnt a suitable additive for cement you need to use sbr bond used as an admix i think you will be alright diluting it between 5-1 or 10- 1 depending on the brand you purchase read the container this will help. you will be better off screeding the floor . set your level at you highest point using a wooden lath this will help you if you are an inexperienced screeder then cut a check out of a wooden straight edge the thickness of a tile you can pull this straight edge between the gulley and the top of the wooden lath ,use of a plastic float helps fill any holes that appear as you screed . you must then remove the wooden lath at the the highest point and fill the channel .then mix neat cement with a strong mix of sbr and water to the consistency of wall grout this will be you bonding coat .use a section of king span or some 12mm ply wood as your walking board this will allow you to get onto the bed and tile it with out damaging the bed . tiling takes place as normal i would just use a straight edge and a square on small areas apply the bonding coat(slurry ) with a mosaic trowel and tile as normal and use a beater bloc or mallet to tap them flat grout after 24 hrs good luck hope this helps

sorry for the long post i got a bit carried away with that one