Fixing Porcelain Tiles

[simonb43]

Have recently had an enquiry to fix porcelain tiles to bathroom walls.

Tile size is 300mm x 300mm and the customer insists that they have been told that standard tubbed adhesive can be used.

I have tried to inform them they have been misled and that a flexible rapid set adhesive needs to be used.

They insist that they will not pay the extra for the rapid set because of the cost and the advice they have been given.

I have responded by informing them that i will not fix them with standard tubbed adhesive.

Why do customers always think they are right ???

[tkm18]

Have recently had an enquiry to fix porcelain tiles to bathroom walls.

Tile size is 300mm x 300mm and the customer insists that they have been told that standard tubbed adhesive can be used.

I have tried to inform them they have been misled and that a flexible rapid set adhesive needs to be used.

They insist that they will not pay the extra for the rapid set because of the cost and the advice they have been given.

I have responded by informing them that i will not fix them with standard tubbed adhesive.

Why do customers always think they are right ???

Had similiar a few weeks back, went back to the shop the customer got the tiles from.

'Yeh sure i'll swap the tubbed stuff, take this tubbed stuff instead, its ideal for showers aswell'. Was the reply from the shop manager.

Apparantly there are tubbed addys that claim they can be used to fix porcelain, but i wouldnt be a$$ed waiting the 2 weeks for it to set.

Best thing you can do is walk away from the job and let them get someone else.

[whitebeam]

Can understand why people believe the first piece of advise they are given from the shop but then totaly disregard what the tiler has to say, Wonder how many peeps have tubbed gear holding up their porcelain. I agree WALK

[andy-p]

i looked at a job 600x300 trav , saw buckets of tubbed and said to the bloke you cant stick them on with that, he says, guy in shop says yes, and tiler before me says it ok (and he was quoting £20/m2) so i sez, get him to fix em then as i waltzed out the door...

[enduro]

You can use Granfix multifix tubbed adhesive for fixing porcelain to walls.

[tkm18]

You can use Granfix multifix tubbed adhesive for fixing porcelain to walls.

Whats the setting time?

[Droopy]

What kind of tubbed addy did your customer have, out of interest?

[enduro]

Not rapid setting, i dont like rapid set on porcelain, so never use it.

[tkm18]

Not rapid setting, i dont like rapid set on porcelain, so never use it.

So how long would it take to hold the 300x300 procelain mentioned in the original post?

I ask because i would imagine it would take at least a week, never mind on 300x600.

Im not doubting it would hold, eventually.

[enduro]

I have tiled loads with granfix multifix, if you tile one day you can grout the next, but if you need to get a tile off...It will pull the wall down, it sticks like s... to a blanket

[whitebeam]

Just would'nt entertain tubbed gear on any porcelain, Powdered addy sets quicker or you could go away on two weeks holiday then grout on your return, Just to be on the safe side

[Droopy]

So how long would it take to hold the 300x300 procelain mentioned in the original post?

I ask because i would imagine it would take at least a week, never mind on 300x600.

Im not doubting it would hold, eventually.

Max size of 300 x 300 for porc' with multifix, mate.

[tkm18]

I have tiled loads with granfix multifix, if you tile one day you can grout the next, but if you need to get a tile off...It will pull the wall down, it sticks like s... to a blanket

So 24hr setting time on 300x300 Porcelain??

@ Drew, i wouldnt use any tubbed on porcelain mate, SPF all day long.

The max size on tubbed is one of my little niggles right enough, but thats for another tread.

[Droopy]

So 24hr setting time on 300x300 Porcelain??

@ Drew, i wouldnt use any tubbed on porcelain mate, SPF all day long.

The max size on tubbed is one of my little niggles right enough, but thats for another tread.

I'm with you on this one, tk.

Bagged all the way with it for me too.

[tkm18]

I'm with you on this one, tk.

Bagged all the way with it for me too.

Nice avatar btw.

[Highlander]

Have recently had an enquiry to fix porcelain tiles to bathroom walls.

Tile size is 300mm x 300mm and the customer insists that they have been told that standard tubbed adhesive can be used.

I have tried to inform them they have been misled and that a flexible rapid set adhesive needs to be used.

They insist that they will not pay the extra for the rapid set because of the cost and the advice they have been given.

I have responded by informing them that i will not fix them with standard tubbed adhesive.

Why do customers always think they are right ???

Thing is Simon is it Granfix the customer is wanting you to tile with? If not tell him go boil his head (Joke) explain to him that you have been advised Granfix is possible but goes against what you are comfortable with as Bagged is the normal and what proffesional tilers use 99% of the time.

I am afraid I will only use bagged with Porcelain and that is why I provide my own materials when doing jobs, and on the occasional time customer supplys own I spec what I will use and if I ended up at job with B&Q gear I will walk or give customer option of me supplying my own gear..

Highlander

[Droopy]

Nice avatar btw.

Where are you based, tk?

[GazTech]

Ready mixed ceramic wall tile adhesives require moisture to be lost from the adhesive in order to allow the polymer binder to dry and form a ‘FILM’ capable of bonding both to the substrate and the tile.
A High proportion of large format tiles, typically 30cm x 30cm or greater are typically porcelain and as such, by definition the tiles have a water absorption of 0.5% or less. Therefore this would slow down the hard formation between a ready mixed ceramic wall tile adhesives and a porcelain tile. If the background is also of a low porosity or is in fact impervious to moisture, the ability of the adhesive to “dry out” would be severely hampered, bearing in mind that the only rational escape route available to this moisture would be via the open grout joints. The larger the tile, the fewer the joints, thus reducing the amount of open areas where moisture may escape. For this reason, Building Adhesives Ltd would recommend the use of cement based adhesives as a general rule to ensure the adhesive is capable of drying and setting beneath the tiles.

[Fred]

slow set Mapei white every time, no no to tub gear...........

[Grace'sDad]

Can I suggest something to everyone concerning this thread? Time and again I have stood and listened to other tilers tell their customers that they can't / won't use something because "you just can't - s'not done that way".

Look at all the technical info on this forum (Gaz's post for example).

Believe me, spend a few minutes patiently explaining to your customers exactly WHY tubbed adhesive can't be used. Not only will they realise that they are talking to a professional, but they will also see that you clearly know far more than the tile shop person. The store staff are GODS in the eyes of customers, it's up to us to PROVE we know better - not just say so!

My background is sales so I am used to selling and I'm sure it has given me an edge on winning my business.
Look professional, Act professional and (more importantly) SOUND professional.
If you give your customers a warm cosy feeling (NO Wivers!) about your abilities, you are many times more likely to get the job - and have it your way!

[tkm18]

Where are you based, tk?

The other roundabout town mate, East Kilbride.

I think he might have sold himself during the tourny, played a blinder.

[tkm18]

Can I suggest something to everyone concerning this thread? Time and again I have stood and listened to other tilers tell their customers that they can't / won't use something because "you just can't - s'not done that way".

Look at all the technical info on this forum (Gaz's post for example).

Believe me, spend a few minutes patiently explaining to your customers exactly WHY tubbed adhesive can't be used. Not only will they realise that they are talking to a professional, but they will also see that you clearly know far more than the tile shop person. The store staff are GODS in the eyes of customers, it's up to us to PROVE we know better - not just say so!

My background is sales so I am used to selling and I'm sure it has given me an edge on winning my business.
Look professional, Act professional and (more importantly) SOUND professional.
If you give your customers a warm cosy feeling (NO Wivers!) about your abilities, you are many times more likely to get the job - and have it your way!

Agree totally, and think most people on this thread have done there homework and know their product.

Problem with salesperson V's tiler is the image the public have of tradesmen out to rip the customer off all the time.

[whitebeam]

This also works with builders mate, I was told to dot and dab with foiled backed plasterboard once told the buider it would'nt work he just took the advise from the supplier, Guess what it debonded. It's about time the shops gave their staff at some of the diy sheds some training with adhesive manufacturers and tile suppliers, It would make a tilers life a bit easier

[Rab78]

I have a backround as a salesperson 5years in fact working in a tile shop. The adice we gave before the porcelain boom was good while it lasted, but there was shake-ups when porcelain started to sell, and sell, and sell.

"We only reccommend a powder adhesive with porcelbond technology - dunlop set fast plus or equivalent." or something along those lines I would say.

I carried all that info with me as a tiler.

Tell the customer what you know, not what you want to learn by mistake.

[brian c]

Ardex have tubbed adhesive product which can be used on porcelain tiles...the name escapes me but i know Grumpy grouter knows what its called.

[riggers]

ardex d20 , been using it on site job ,got by contractors, wouldent bother with it myself like.

[top tiler]

my advice dont use it if you do butter up the backs of the tiles then leave for weeks totally inprctical what is the back ground you are tiling on why dont you get them to sign a disclaimer jason

[grumpygrouter]

Ardex have tubbed adhesive product which can be used on porcelain tiles...the name escapes me but i know Grumpy grouter knows what its called.

Ardex D20 and D30. Substrates must be porous though, and personally, I would use powdered stuff for porcelain........