Time Served Tiler's V.s New Tilers

[Dan]

I thought I'd think of a thread that would spark some interesting discussion and I thought of the title but not what I wanted the thread to be about so I thought I'd let your mind wonder.

There have been many topics related to 'are tiling courses flooding the market with tilers?' and 'is the tiling market saturated?' and 'why do I have to drop MY price?' etc etc.

I thought the topics may be being lead by a motive related to those used to charging the price they do and perhaps now cant, and those that are just working out the price they're worth / can get.

I'm not too sure what question to ask and hope you'll help me out. I'm guessing you (as you're reading it) could be the right person to think of the question.

All the best.

[brian c]

Are tiling courses saturating the market with tilers,this having an influence on the price of a job whether it be day rate or £m2?

[Fekin]

I think the question really is... can a flood of new tilers really affect a time served tiler.

In my opinion the answer is no.

If you are a successful time served tiler that's been in the game long enough to gain a good reputation, and have all the contacts you need in the building trade then I can't see how an influx of newly trained tilers can have any impact on you, as the type of people that comew to you for your services wouldn't probably ever consider employing a new guy to do the work for them.

Now if you just depend on an advert in the Yellow pages and the small time domestic market then you're going to be up against the new guys with low prices I think.

[brian c]

I Totally Agree With Everything You Have Said Adam.

[whitebeam]

Agree with what you say Fekin, I know a couple of tilers 30+ years never to be out of work they be quite sometimes but always working

[wetdec]

I think the question really is... can a flood of new tilers really affect a time served tiler.

In my opinion the answer is no.

If you are a successful time served tiler that's been in the game long enough to gain a good reputation, and have all the contacts you need in the building trade then I can't see how an influx of newly trained tilers can have any impact on you, as the type of people that comew to you for your services wouldn't probably ever consider employing a new guy to do the work for them.

Now if you just depend on an advert in the Yellow pages and the small time domestic market then you're going to be up against the new guys with low prices I think.

Top Draw m8



tiler


,,

[Saltire69]

I would say it's more new tiler V's newer tiler. The guy's that have been going a year or so and trying to build a rep. Old tilers won't have a problem as Fekin said.

[Dave]

A lot of the new tradesmen that i see advertising seem to be multi tasking....i.e..tiling/plumbing/joinery/painting etc.......not many just advertise tiling alone.....

Anybody else see this as well......maybe they should advertise as bathroom installation specilaists etc etc....I just think ,to just say they do a multitude of trades and that's it , no other discription then it makes them sound like handy men/women....

How do you advertise if you do more than one trade..?..

[GazTech]

The customers in todays domestic market, what with busy lifestyles and 100mph work loads and juggling family needs, don't want the hassle of dealing with 3 trades for new bathroom re-fit when one will do.....put yourself in that position if possible....Gaz

[Dave]

The customers in todays domestic market, what with busy lifestyles and 100mph work loads and juggling family needs, don't want the hassle of dealing with 3 trades for new bathroom re-fit when one will do.....put yourself in that position if possible....Gaz

What i mean gazza is.. you see advertisements in the local rags that just say they do tiling/plastering/painting/plumbing/joinery..etc etc...and no mention that they are some sort of bathroom business etc.....is it better to say you are.. say for instance "GW bathroom specialists" all aspects of bathroom installations ..including plumbing/tiling..etc..

Than to just say GW tiling/palstering/painting.etc...you get my drift.?....i think it makes peeps sound more like handymen....

So how do you lot who multi task on jobs advertise yourselves......

[GazTech]

If bathrooms is your main target area, then 'GW bathroom renovations' is far better to advertise than splitting the skills up individually, the name itself suggests the full package.

[tkm18]

Since before ive done this as a FT job we've never advertised for work, all word of mouth and recommendations.

As already mentioned, if your established you should be ok. Ive seen umpteen guys chuck their real job, do the 2 week wonder course then chuck it because they couldn't pick up the work or didnt realise its not as easy as it looks.

I think the current downturn in the economy is also adding to this debate as fewer people are buying/selling propertys.

I reckon once the economy calms down you'll see more people renovating their existing property rather the moving.

[Branty]

They seem to be doing that already in London.

[Fekin]

Yes.

I think it is far better to advertise yourself as the whole package rather than listing all the trades you do.

As you say Dave, it can make you sound like a handyman, which I see alot of people advertising themselves as these days.

[Tulsa]

I agree with both tkm and fekin.I have personally priced several jobs recently whereb the customers had stated that they had been planning on selling but due to the credit crunch.economic downturn that they were going to stay put and had decided on refurbishing their current property.As for fekins point,i think advertising plumber/plasterer/tiler/sparky/whatever looks really unproffesional and does make the person sound like a handyman,again i have priced jobs were i went to do a quote for tiling and when i got there the customer said that they were having a full bathroom installation at which point i asked would they like a quote for that as well as i offered that service as well.

[bignose]

Im going on a course in a few weeks time and I hear what you say about experience but of course being experienced may not mean that a given tradesman is any good. I was overheard talking about my tiling course yesterday by an experienced guy (just what I wanted..not). He said it wasnt that great and that more and more people wanted porcelaine tiles these days. He said he had a job to cut them with his cutter and that he was having difficulty drilling them. Should I tell him of this site and help him out? I dont think so surely he should have the right kit for the job ?

[Fekin]

Personally, I wouldn't class him as experianced if he's having a hard time fitting porcelain

Know what tools you need for the job and go out and get them.

[enduro]

When i see some of the jobs some tilers do who have been in the trade for years, i think where did they train!!! some of the jobs are really bad as they dont know any different, so new guys who have done a course may be slow but there working methods and choice of materials are better. So anybody who has done training, whether its a week or 8 weeks, could show some of these guys a few things.

[Dave]

When i see some of the jobs some tilers do who have been in the trade for years, i think where did they train!!! some of the jobs are really bad as they dont know any different, so new guys who have done a course may be slow but there working methods and choice of materials are better. So anybody who has done training, whether its a week or 8 weeks, could show some of these guys a few things.

That is true as long as the course provider keeps up to date with modern materials and practices etc.......some don't!!!......

[andy-p]

When i see some of the jobs some tilers do who have been in the trade for years, i think where did they train!!! some of the jobs are really bad as they dont know any different, so new guys who have done a course may be slow but there working methods and choice of materials are better. So anybody who has done training, whether its a week or 8 weeks, could show some of these guys a few things.

yeh , but the reverse side to that is i have had to fix a few botched jobs by 4-day tilers...

[garythetiler]

back in the early nineties and early eighties there were recessions, work was tight alot of tilers got out of the game, alot went to work abroad and some carried on. my son is 16 i am stating him as an apprentice tiler a career lasts you a lifetime not just a few months or a couple of years if you have come into tiling to make a fast buck you are going to be dissappointed ,the reality is i am always busy and can never find any good tradesmaen to work for me the young lads i have seen coming through seem to be inexperienced prima donnas who wont get out of bed for anything less than a grand a week perhaps a quiet period might be a wake up call for a few people

[pete fearn]

i have started 3 companys, 1 for tiling, 1 for decorating and one that is a service company, covering all the work i do. Depending on what the client wants to which company they ring either way i still get a chance to quote and hopefully win the job.
3 differant companys 3 phone numbers = 3 bites of the apple so to speek

[tiler burden]

1. you'd have to define what is a time served tiler before you can compare anything.
a time served tradesman is a person who does a 3-5 year apprenticeship with a firm and goes to college 1 day a week for 3 years to gain a city and guilds or equivalent in there trade and then a 1 year advanced craft (optional). i havent yet found a tiler who has done the latter??? lots of plasterers, joiners, brickies, plumbers, sparks but never a tiler. that is what a time served tradesman is, so if you havent done that, then your not officially recognised whether you like or agree with it!!

you could be a tiler for 20 years and do the same sub standard work day in day out and then a course guy comes along from a 4-6 week course and tells you something you didnt know about natural stone sealing or ditra etc, so all in all its pretty damn hard to generalise. then again theres people on here who have 20 years plus experience and are amazing tilers with a wealth of knowledge that i could'nt begin to compete with.

the course has a lot to answer for too. if you are claiming to be able to teach some one a trade in 4-6 weeks then i'm afraid your stretching the imagination a bit but, 4-6 weeks will obviously be much better than a 4 day course, well 4 times better at least lol..and then whos teaching you?? are they time served, do they have the rare talent, passion and experience to get a point across in a informative manner that suits the individual pupil??? all these things need to be taken into account, you simply cannot generalise, its an individual assesment.

course guys get a lot of new info and technical training that some older guys dont, they also get taught sales and marketing which is vital. they have website, can market, learn to fit a bathroom suite, plaster a wall etc and they suddenly are more versatile than say just a tiler..so let the battle begin. we can have a massive competition and the last man standing/tiling is the best, whether hes, 'officially' time served, course trained or just a 20yr plus top professional tiler who keeps up with the current tech. my moneys on the 20 yr plus pro with tech spec ;0)

also, i would worry what you call your business name...i worked for carphone warehouse, and they dont sell carphones now, and they dont operate from a warehouse but they still our europes number one mobile retailer due to their reputation and integrity, not what there called..same could be said of radio rentals

what you do tells me more about you than what you claim!!! you can still do wet rooms and plastering and bathroom installs even if your called ''jones tiling'

trying to do everything isnt the answer either..if you tiling is comprehensive and above all excellent then you shouldnt really have to multi task because you should be in big demand for you tiling!! but then again, theres now harm in being able to flatten a wall, screed a small floor, drop a rad and box in a bath either..do what gets in your way but be efficient and concentrate on what your best on..its better to put a few quid on the plumbers bill and let him worry about insurance, leaks, chipped baths that have to be returned whilst you carry on laying 15 meters of granite at 30-1000 pounds per meter lol

ed

[mz30]

That's a well thought out and truthful post ed

[Dave]

That's a nice long post ed!!!....i thought it was Swe to start with..........but some very valid points...........

[mz30]

When i see some of the jobs some tilers do who have been in the trade for years, i think where did they train!!! some of the jobs are really bad as they dont know any different, so new guys who have done a course may be slow but there working methods and choice of materials are better. So anybody who has done training, whether its a week or 8 weeks, could show some of these guys a few things.

I would love someone who had been on a training course for 8 week's to come and teach me something(seriously)i don't profess to know everything,but the method's i use have been tried and tested for almost two decades ,but if there is something new to learn i alway's am intrested in listening.

[Dave]

I would love someone who had been on a training course for 8 week's to come and teach me something(seriously)i don't profess to know everything,but the method's i use have been tried and tested for almost two decades ,but if there is something new to learn i alway's am intrested in listening.

Mee too............we have to keep up with new products etc etc.....

[hillhead]

I'v come across some good tilers,some sh*te tilers,some very good tilers and a couple of unbelievably brilliant tilers!!
I don't care if a tiler has 20+ years exp,if he has the right training and know how after a few years then thats enough for me,
i spent 5 years on a aprenticeship after leaving school(another trade)
waist of time as 10 years in the profession the boss asked me to train a guy to do my job! i said"i served my apprenticeship for this" he told me aprenticeships were history!! just money the companies want!! output output!
Build a reputation is what you need,
my hotel job was started by two well exp tilers!! they lost it and i got all the rest- 700m2 +.need i say more.
Good men hold your heads up.

[mz30]

Build a reputation is what you need,
my hotel job was started by two well exp tilers!! they lost it and i got all the rest- 700m2 +.need i say more.
Good men hold your heads up.

Your right hillhead reputation is everything ,just to add to the "need i say more" have you finished the job and have you been paid?

I actually know a few tilers who have been doing it for years and are rough as a bears paw,but weighing up them with rough "new tilers" there is honestly no comparison.

[bignose]

You all make some valid points. Just one observation on the longer courses (4 weeks). I visited one a few weeks ago for a nose around before I commited and I wasnt overly impressed. The person that showed me around didnt seem very motivated and they were an instructor ! But the main impression I got was that there was a fair bit of 'padding' in the course. There were a few guys tiling around a dummy window each and well it all seemed a bit too relaxed and slow, considering what they had paid for the course. So its 5 days at NETT for me, I hope Im right. I have my own bathroom to do when I get back.