The right to reply...

[Dan]

It is nice to see both sides of the story. I would have agreed with the tiler before, though now I think it's fair to say there wasn't much the customer could do to rectify his problems - he's guided by the tiler - right?

Either way I'm staying out of the topic and will leave it to the members to discuss. I'm pleased to see the forum can be used methodically though to sort problems out. And thanks to you both for providing us with some reading.

[Ultimate Tiling]

Sounds like a case of pay peanuts get monkeys.
Quality comes with a price

[TilingLogistics]

The level of tiling should be better. However, the price to start with was ridiculous it should have been closer to £650 IMO. How a tiler can state he normally charges £22.50 M2 I will never know. The M2 price varies on where and what they are being fixed to, the size of the tile and the tile material so how anyone can have a flat price per M2 is beyond me. I think i would give him the chance to correct it and pay him in full but hey thats only my opinion and I am not going to vote.

There is someone on here has in his sign off signature "Pay Cheap Pay Twice" how true it is in this case.

Kev

[howard]

tiling not good enough thats what happens when you get a cheap tiler in to do the job

[Branty]

This turning into a very intersting thread.
This tiler has made some 'school boy errors', but in no way is it the worst tiling I've ever seen.
I would imagine he has rushed the job, once he realised the price was well to low, started making some little mistakes, the customer was on the ball adding to more pressure, then the big error round the cupbaord.
This is a classic example of charging the right money, and paying the right money.
I wonder if anyone here, charging £650, would have got this job?
I think what can be learned here is, if you can do the job (which I believe this fixer could), then charge the right money.
If you want a good job done, be prepared to pay.
I say this because I to have found myself in that situation, where you've seriously under sold yourself, and I've found myself cutting corners, to make the job pay. Not a great thing to own up to, but I'm sure I'm not the only one. Saying that I only done a few times in the early days, then soon realised it's better all round to charge a decent price, and sell the job to the customer 1st.
What it did teach me is, make your prices decent, and stick to them (pardon the pun).
I hope that all makes sense.

[NW tiler]

Having looked at both sides of the argument, I can see that, as a customer, that you have a right to be disappointed with the end result.

The window frame is poor and the grout line is unacceptable.

I'm a new tiler, less than a years experience, but I would never leave a job in that state.

I think what he originally charged you was irrelevant, if the tiler thought he could do it that cheap then that is his problem. I agree with most people, £600 would have been nearer the mark. But alarm bells should have rung in your mind as to why this guy was so cheap.

The problem you will have is that he will not come back and correct the mistakes, you will not pay him the full amount, therefore you will either have to live with it or get another tiler in to correct the mistakes. If the latter is the case, you'll have to rip it down and start all over again!

[project damager]

Thank you everyone for the feedback, good bad or indifferent, I respect everyone's opinion.

I have drafted out some answers to questions raised...


Branty

One more thing, have the problems highlighted been resolved?

Answer: The problems identified in photographs 1 – 6 have been corrected. The trim is better but not great. These were the items identified on the evening of day 2 and unfortunately set the scene for the rest of the job.


Robbo

I think the biggest problem by far is the height difference in photo 10.

Answer: I agree but let’s be clear about where the problem is now. Initially, the tiler offered it to me with the problem in the right hand corner of the bathroom – the joint of the radiator wall and the vanity unit, which meant that when you entered the room it would scream at you. The problem has been shifted to the left hand side of the vanity unit so know you only see it “through” the installed shower unit. I cannot face ripping down the entire radiator wall and face of vanity unit in order to correct it.

Faithhealer

Did this tiler have any references? And was it the only quote you received?

Answer: Quick piece of background. I spent ages preparing this room, with a view to doing the job myself. If you read my early posts they will support my position. In all honesty, I lost my bottle at the point at which I was about to tile. It was at this point that I posted the note below:

http://www.tilersforums.co.uk/tiling-forum/8687-tiler-required-huntingdon-area.html

I had a number of replies mostly from guys who were, in hindsight not surprisingly, unavailable for some time! This guy contacted me, having just moved and said he was struggling to get going but was prepared to come and look at the job.

So, to answer your questions – No the tiler did not have any references; I reviewed his web site and was reasonably impressed with what I saw. I did not get quotes from any others, simply because of the time frame. I recognise now I was wrong, I guess it would have highlighted what the real cost of the job should have been, I accept that now.


Branty

This is a classic example of charging the right money, and paying the right money. I wonder if anyone here, charging £650, would have got this job?

Answer: A lot is being said about the price. Let me respond by saying I never set the price. All I wanted was to be treated fairly and my negotiation was about the tiler recognising that I had paid out a considerable sum for the materials.

Whatever had been quoted, if it included materials, I would simply have asked for a reduction to recognise the materials that I had bought – which I valued at £2.50 per sq mtr. This did not recompense me for all my expenditure but contributed towards the costs. I was trying to recognise that you guys would purchase at discount.

This was absolutely not about money. On the weekend prior to the call about the levels, my wife and I had agreed that we would pay him an additional amount to compensate him for his loss of time on day 1, as we felt that he could not be held responsible for it.

[monty]

Originally Posted by NW tiler

Having looked at both sides of the argument, I can see that, as a customer, that you have a right to be disappointed with the end result.

The window frame is poor and the grout line is unacceptable.

I'm a new tiler, less than a years experience, but I would never leave a job in that state.

I think what he originally charged you was irrelevant, if the tiler thought he could do it that cheap then that is his problem. I agree with most people, £600 would have been nearer the mark. But alarm bells should have rung in your mind as to why this guy was so cheap.

The problem you will have is that he will not come back and correct the mistakes, you will not pay him the full amount, therefore you will either have to live with it or get another tiler in to correct the mistakes. If the latter is the case, you'll have to rip it down and start all over again!

I know the professional way to correct this would be to rip the lot down...But if this is not a option could you not just take the 4 tiles down cut the top tile to suit the grout line and bring the other 3 up? (see pic) Would be a lot cheaper and certainly look a lot better? Correct me if I'm wrong.

10%20-%20Unacceptable%20Error.jpg

[chris.tiling]

Originally Posted by monty

I know the professional way to correct this would be to rip the lot down...But if this is not a option could you not just take the 4 tiles down cut the top tile to suit the grout line and bring the other 3 up? (see pic) Would be a lot cheaper and certainly look a lot better? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Attachment 1316

Monty...looks from one of the other pictures that the tiles then continue below the cupboard door so need to meet, so I dont think this is an option either

[NW tiler]

Originally Posted by monty

I know the professional way to correct this would be to rip the lot down...But if this is not a option could you not just take the 4 tiles down cut the top tile to suit the grout line and bring the other 3 up? (see pic) Would be a lot cheaper and certainly look a lot better? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Attachment 1316

Monty

That is an option but, the grout line either side of the cuboard would not line up, also underneath the cupboard would not meet.

Whatever the customer decides upon, it's going to be messy, expensive and take a long time.

Just glad it wasn't one of my jobs posted on here.

[Droopy]

I've seen worse, far worse.
There are a few silly mistakes, but apart from the lines not meeting at the cupboard and the trim, that has been fixed, nothing that would justify holding back any money. Especially at the price it was done for.
As for the bit at the cupboard, it could be made less noticeable, if not fixed, pretty easily.
If the cuts up the side, from the first one above the bottom of the door, are removed and then the first one replaced by a cut that would make up the difference of the F*up.
By that I mean if the tiles are 600x300 adn the width of that cut is say, 40 mm and the height difference is 15mm, if you make a cut that is 40mmx315mm, then continue with normal 300x40mm cuts up the rest of it.
Then the only place that it would be noticeable is at the bottom.
Not ideal, I know, but way better than it is now.
A couple of other points, I would have insisted that coving was removed. You never get a good enough finish when the tile is as thick, or thicker than the cove. It can also leave a cut edge proud of the cove in places.
And no way was 2x20kg of rapid set ever going to do 20mtrs.
You should at least pay him for the extra adhesive he no doubt used.

[CJ]

Difficult one this

In my opinion, the tiler totally messed up in the pricing as has been mentioned.....But other than the tiling being way out on the door wall, I think the other niggles are everyday teasers faced by tilers...........its how you cure them that shows a pro finish.

I think the tiler rushed, but a lot does depend on the prep work carried out..........where the walls straight and level, tiles that size need good walls.........and good setting out.

Should you, or should you not withold money.............................I can't make my mind up.........I can see both sides of the argument..............and as the original price was way out, I can understand the tiler being ****ed off.

By the sounds of it you have both reached stalemate.................so wot happens next.

End of my tanners worth