Conservatory floor

[Gentleman Jim]

Afternoon chaps (and well done to the Tigers of Hull!!)
A new conservatory with 12mm of green chip-board type flooring on top of cellotex insulation on top of newly laid concrete!
What are my options as the customers would like to put some porcelain 340 x 340 tiles down and the current surface is obviously not suitable. Further complication is that there is no way height can be added (eg ditra matting),to this green flooring as it would take the surface level over that of the threshold.
My thought is to use "hardi-backer" type floor boards in place of the green stuff but wouldn't know whether I could put this directly on top of the insulation. I guess I wouldn't be able to remove the insulation as building regs. now insist the floor is insulated as well as the walls.
Help!!!
Regards
Jim

[Dave]

That is a floating floor jim..........and as such , should not be tiled........to much deflection and not stable to tile too......

IMO..Floating floors are a big NO NO and asking for trouble..........

[pjtiler]

leave it alone mate

[grumpygrouter]

Looks like it is a no from me as well Jim. maybe we should close the thread now as I can't see anybody having a different response.

[pjtiler]

you could always tile it and leave the county i spose

oh and well done to hull fc and there fans see you next season

[Gentleman Jim]

Thanks chaps.
Have spoken to the customer who is resigned to laminate flooring instead.
Lost a job but gained respect for being informed and willing to give him the correct answer, thanks for your advice.
Jim

[wetdec]

Nice one !!!



tiler

[Fekin]

But that would just be making the floating floor thicker, unless you actually drilled into the subfloor maybe through concrete etc.

I wouldn't like to use ply on floors anyway, never mind thin 6mm.

For me, it would be rip out the floating floor, and start from scratch.

[Dave]

Hi guys might not be much use to you now as the customer has already decided to use wood flooring .

I have a bloke from the tech department at Granfix visit my training centre on a monthly basis to give talks and demonstrations on adhesives / grouts and different fixing techniques.

He advises that floating floors can be tiled on if the correct technique and adhesive is used. The main problem with a floating floor is board separation caused when the floor expands and contracts. When they lay the boards on top of the insulation they don't screw them into place , they simply glue the edges together.

The advise given is to lay 6mm ply over the floor in the opposite direction to the floor boards and screw down every 4-6 inches, this will tie all of the boards together and stop board separation.

Then to cope with any movement or bounce use Ultimate Flex adhesive which is a Granfix version of a 2 part ady , its a powder with the flexi add mix already added in a powder form instead of a liquid.

This has been tried and tested both in lab and on site by granfix and my tiling company with no problems what so ever.

Just thought i would add this to the post so you don't have to turn these types of floors down if they come up.

You can use BAL fast-flex on floating floors.......BUT they must be stable and FREE from deflection...........I don't believe any adhesive manufacturer would guarantee there products on any floor that has excessive deflection , like the majority of floating floors have.....

Can you show us a pdf of the manufactures instructions please......?

A floor that deflects will in time cause the tiles to either de-bond or crack....

[pjtiler]

why would any tiler want to take the risk for the sake of a few hundred quid wages
you,ll loose all credablity and your good name when it all goes tits up

btw them adhesive reps will tell you anything to sell the stuff there not the poor sods who have to keep going back to replace the busted tiles

[Dave]

ULTIMATE FLEX
ADHESIVE
SINGLE PART RAPID SETTING HIGHLY FLEXIBLE
ADHESIVE FOR WALLS AND FLOORS. TO BE
MIXED WITH WATER. SUITABLE FOR INTERNAL
AND EXTERNAL USE. WHITE OR GREY CEMENT
BASED POWDER.

CONFORMS TO BS 5980: 1980 TYPE 1 CLASS AA

APPLICATIONS
Ultimate Flex is suitable for fixing a variety of floor tiles such as ceramics, slate, quarries, porcelain, limestone, marble,
terrazzo and mosaics to a variety of timber surfaces where slight movement can occur such as floating floors, tongue
and groove floorboards, chipboard and plywood. Hardboard is not recommended.
PREPARATION
All surfaces to be tiled must be clean, dry, free from any excessive or sudden movement and securely fixed to the
supports.

Apply 1 coat, neat of Granfix Acrylic Bonding and Priming Agent to the floor surface and allow to dry.


This is a similar spec to BAL fast flex and also states no excessive movement....now i have never yet come across a floating floor that does not deflect to much over its area.....

Yes some products say they are OK on floating floors but what do they class as minimal movement.....

My advice amd many agree is to not tile these floors as eventually there will be probs.......but each to there own if they decide to go ahead...coz if you ever get a problem , i can guarantee that the adhesive manufacture will not back a failure.........

[Dave]

True ...that's how they get out of it by saying YES it can be used on floating floors BUT not excessive movement........A new floating floor might seem solid at the new build stage but as time goes by these poly bases give and then they start to move...this is where the deflection comes in.....and as the fixer who tiled it then the comeback is on you...

I personally would 100% of the time walk away from a floating floor....it takes yrs and yrs to build a good rep...and one job to go wrong to tar your good name....

These adhesives are great and highly flexible and stick like s**t to a blanket but also chipboard isnt really that stable so if there is movement then either the tile will give or the chipboard will..........
but hey!! we all have opinions and i appreciate your input a lot......
with out input then what is there to discuss......... .......

p.s. hows the school going.....you busy..?.....