Floor prone to flooding

[pendleh]

Hi

Ive got a kitchen floor to do only problem is the area is prone to flooding. Can anyone give me some info as to what materials I should use if the floor is to withstand immersion for a while. The floor is concrete. Swimming pools come to mind .

Best Wishes

Howard

[Pawelzik]

Hello Howard. As I did understand the floor will be short time flooded, right?

Okay, if so I recommend for the adhesive to take a bagged stuff C2T or C2TE, complete cement based.
Don´t try one with a fast setting as that may contain a small amount of gypsum (a small amount of gypsum can be added to cement based adhesives to make it fast). And do it buttering floating for full tile back grip.
I think the adhesive should have minimum 3 days for setting before the floor is flooded. Martin

[pendleh]

Hi Pawelzik

Ill certainly look into this thanks for your input!!

[pendleh]

Not sure what you mean by buttering floating. I presume buttering is applying the adhesive to the back of the tile? Floating is?

Hello Howard. As I did understand the floor will be short time flooded, right?

Okay, if so I recommend for the adhesive to take a bagged stuff C2T or C2TE, complete cement based.
Don´t try one with a fast setting as that may contain a small amount of gypsum (a small amount of gypsum can be added to cement based adhesives to make it fast). And do it buttering floating for full tile back grip.
I think the adhesive should have minimum 3 days for setting before the floor is flooded. Martin

[wetdec]

I believ he meand a full bed metod where you apply adhesive to back of tile and floor to prevent voids any water could if it gets through run into.

If faced with this situation I would underlay the tiles with Durabase WP waterproof membrane raising it up the walls all around so it sits between the skirtin and wall. Doing this will stop any water travelling up through the plaster if you get wet.


tiler

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[dock]

pendleh

Most quality adhesive manufacturers do waterproofing systems and suitable adhesives and grouts........so it depends which one you prefer

Tank the floor and up the walls to the level required with Mapelastic (this product will withstand a degree of hydrostatic pressure and is used to waterproof swimming pools)

Fix in Keraquick S1 adhesive and grout with Ultra Color Plus

dock

[TilingLogistics]

I would also consider an epoxy grout in this situation

Kev

[Pawelzik]

I believ he meand a full bed metod where you apply adhesive to back of tile and floor to prevent voids any water could if it gets through run into...

Yup, that´s it.

Epoxy grouting I wouldn´t go for because - as far as I did understand - it is only a kitchen floor short time flooded, right? So, as "water finds its way", it will find its way under the tiles. If the grouting is epoxy the water will have difficulties to get out again ?! Therefore I would recommend a normal cement based grouting.

Or did I understand wrong?

[wetdec]

Yup, that´s it.

Epoxy grouting I wouldn´t go for because - as far as I did understand - it is only a kitchen floor short time flooded, right? So, as "water finds its way", it will find its way under the tiles. If the grouting is epoxy the water will have difficulties to get out again ?! Therefore I would recommend a normal cement based grouting.

Or did I understand wrong?

Have to agree !!


tiler

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[TilingLogistics]

If its tiled correctly and the waterproof membrane is fitted correctly and then it is epoxy grouted surely this completes the waterproofing? Or am I missing something?

Kev

[Fekin]

I would have thought the same thing.

[wetdec]

If the water finds a way in and you have epoxied it then how ever much water has got in has to get out the same way as the rest of the floor is sealed.

Make a hole in the lid of a jum jar and drip water in for half hour then let it dry out it will take an age, but take off the lid and it is gone much faster.

Watched Blue Peter me


tiler

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[TilingLogistics]

So if i have this right now! You fit a membrane or tanking or whatever, then you tile but you use normal grout in case the floor floods and the water needs to get out.

Kev

[grumpygrouter]

Hi

Ive got a kitchen floor to do only problem is the area is prone to flooding. Can anyone give me some info as to what materials I should use if the floor is to withstand immersion for a while. The floor is concrete. Swimming pools come to mind .

Best Wishes

Howard

How long is a while?

[wetdec]

So if i have this right now! You fit a membrane or tanking or whatever, then you tile but you use normal grout in case the floor floods and the water needs to get out.

Kev

If you are sealing below then any moisture will dissperse upwards yes. So if water does penatrate somewhere which isnt impossible it should have some sort of way out.


If you put membrane adhesive tile epoxy then you have a damp/wet sandwich if water gets in ?

Or wrong ??


tiler

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[sWe]

There seems to be some confusion on this subject. Tiles (except glass tiles and epoxy based tiles) and cement based adhesives and grout are not waterproof. They're mostly resistant to water, which means they don't deteriorate under water's influence, but they still allow water to pass through. Even dense porcelain still allows some moisture through, though it's not much.

Long version:

If a floor needs to be waterproof, a waterproof membrane combined with cement based adhesive and grout is normally the best option, as that will allow the floor to dry out, as previous posters have stated.

If you for some reason need to use epoxy grout, and you need the floor to be waterproof, then epoxy adhesive is the way to go. Epoxies are more or less waterproof per definition, though some aren't entirely vapor proof in the long run.

When you use cement based adhesives and epoxy grouts, you want the substrate to be able to pass any moisture which get through. If you use waterproof membranes in combination with cement based adhesives and epoxy grout, water/damp might get trapped in the adhesive and any empty spaces under the tiles.
Though porcelain isn't waterproof per se, the moisture they allow through is less than what cement based adhesive can absorb. Picture putting a damp sponge in a plastic bag with a few pinpricks in. It'll dry, eventually, but it might take ages, and in that time, alot of nasty things can happen; the tiles can be discoloured and there might be mold propagation.

If you use epoxy all the way, only the tiles themselves will become damp, assuming there are no holes through which water can get in.

Short version:

• Floor needs to be waterproof, no particular sanitary (or mechanical resistance) requirements - Apply a waterproof membrane, and fix and grout the tiles with cement based materials.
• Floor needs to be waterproof, with particular sanitary (or mechanical resistance) requirements - Epoxy all the way
• Floor doesn't need to be waterproof, with particular sanitary (or mechanical resistance) requirements - No waterproof membrane; Tiles are fixed with cement or epoxy based adhesives, and grouted with epoxy.

Hope I've cleared up/summarized things in an easily digestible manner now.

/sWe

[wetdec]

There seems to be some confusion on this subject. Tiles (except glass tiles and epoxy based tiles) and cement based adhesives and grout are not waterproof. They're mostly resistant to water, which means they don't deteriorate under water's influence, but they still allow water to pass through. Even dense porcelain still allows some moisture through, though it's not much.

Long version:

If a floor needs to be waterproof, a waterproof membrane combined with cement based adhesive and grout is normally the best option, as that will allow the floor to dry out, as previous posters have stated.

If you for some reason need to use epoxy grout, and you need the floor to be waterproof, then epoxy adhesive is the way to go. Epoxies are more or less waterproof per definition, though some aren't entirely vapor proof in the long run.

When you use cement based adhesives and epoxy grouts, you want the substrate to be able to pass any moisture which get through. If you use waterproof membranes in combination with cement based adhesives and epoxy grout, water/damp might get trapped in the adhesive and any empty spaces under the tiles.
Though porcelain isn't waterproof per se, the moisture they allow through is less than what cement based adhesive can absorb. Picture putting a damp sponge in a plastic bag with a few pinpricks in. It'll dry, eventually, but it might take ages, and in that time, alot of nasty things can happen; the tiles can be discoloured and there might be mold propagation.

If you use epoxy all the way, only the tiles themselves will become damp, assuming there are no holes through which water can get in.

Short version:

• Floor needs to be waterproof, no particular sanitary requirements - Apply a waterproof membrane, and fix and grout the tiles with cement based materials.
• Floor needs to be waterproof, with particular sanitary requirements - Epoxy all the way
• Floor doesn't need to be waterproof, with particular sanitary requirements - No waterproof membrane; Tiles are fixed with cement or epoxy based adhesives, and grouted with epoxy.

Hope I've cleared up/summarized things in an easily digestible manner now.

/sWe

Oh


tiler

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[sWe]

Oh


tiler

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The summer when I was 18, I was hired by a steel pipe manufacturer to "transedit" technical manuals and policies (on computer systems and use) from (poor) English (written by Finns, and they generally suck at English) to Swedish, and I found that having a having a fairly detailed explanation and a short "1 = a, 2 = b" style summary made the target audience (steel mill workers and office workers) happier, as they could chose which to read based on their their own technical understanding and the time they had availible

Ey Fekin, I'm writing long sentances again

[wetdec]

18 you have a very good memory then





tiler

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[sWe]

18 you have a very good memory then

tiler

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Well, it wasn't that long ago