are courses better than a good book ? - Page 4 - TilersForums.co.uk | Tile Forums

**Varley** · 10-11-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brio

I for one have to agree with croc, Tiling is hardly rocket science. I also remember the days when Tiling was classed as semi skilled.

I first started Tiling 20+yrs ago with no formal training.

& I have to say, I'm still learning.

Little bit of a contradiction there Brio, you say tiling is not rocket science but yet 20 years down the line your still learning, what is taking you so long if it's not that complicated?

You said you would like to hear from someone who has done a short course, well here I am, what would you like to know mate and i'll be only too happy to respond.

Brio · 13-11-2007

Take it easy Varley old son, sorry if my comments ruffled afew feathers, yours or anyone elses. But Crocotile raised a few pointers that I thoroughly agree with, and I'm entitled to an opinion like anyone else,even tho' you don't agree with it.
Let me first of all deal with that caustic little barb you threw at me. No it was not "a little bit of a contradiction", and yes even after 20 odd yrs in the business. Unlike you, I'm still not too proud to say I'm still learning. Do you honestly regard yourself as being so good at what you do, that there is no more to learn? If you do, then you are saddly deluded, surely. EVEN A MASTER CAN LEARN FROM NOVICE!......
Allow me to clarify my point. I hold a C&G qualification in Bricklaying gained back in the 60s after a 5yr Apprenticeship. Back then, if a "Trade" was not preceded by a 5yr Apprenticeship, it was not regarded as a Trade. Any skilled job requiring anything less than 5yrs training was classed as Semi Skilled. And Tiling came under that category. I'm sorry but thats a fact. And for you to assume that you can impart Knowledge that I don't have, even tho' you don't know me or my circumstances, And all because you've done a short course, is nothing short of bare faced arrogance

**Varley** · 13-11-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brio

Take it easy Varley old son, sorry if my comments ruffled afew feathers, yours or anyone elses. But Crocotile raised a few pointers that I thoroughly agree with, and I'm entitled to an opinion like anyone else,even tho' you don't agree with it.

AT no point in my post did I say that you were not in titled tyo an opinion mate, I was merely responding with my opinion which I am entitled to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brio

Unlike you, I'm still not too proud to say I'm still learning. Do you honestly regard yourself as being so good at what you do, that there is no more to learn? If you do, then you are saddly deluded, surely. EVEN A MASTER CAN LEARN FROM NOVICE!......

If you could quote me from my post where I said I was too proud to say i'm still learning I would be eternaly greatful mate, if you can't, please don't put words in my mouth. At no point in any of my posts in this forum have I ever claimed to be too good to still learn, believe me I know i still have loads to learn in this field.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Brio

Allow me to clarify my point. I hold a C&G qualification in Bricklaying gained back in the 60s after a 5yr Apprenticeship. Back then, if a "Trade" was not preceded by a 5yr Apprenticeship, it was not regarded as a Trade. Any skilled job requiring anything less than 5yrs training was classed as Semi Skilled. And Tiling came under that category. I'm sorry but thats a fact. And for you to assume that you can impart Knowledge that I don't have, even tho' you don't know me or my circumstances, And all because you've done a short course, is nothing short of bare faced arrogance

At what point did I make this assumption Brio, you seem to have taken my post very personally I can assure you it was not meant to offend and I apologise if it did. In your post you wanted to hear from someone who had done a short course, I reponded and asked what you would like to know. I don't know what you have read into this, but by the tone of your post you have obviously read something into it. Again I ask you to quote me anywhere that I have suggested I have more knowledge in the subject than you.

I will ignore the 'bare faced arrogance' remark, please don't make your posts personal, keep them relevant to the discussion, this is not a forum for name calling!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by whitebeam

I know a tiler with a service record of 35 years, his dad was a tiler so where going back a few years. Me and a mate were doing a subway and invited him to help, he said I've never done one. I was on a job and phoned him and ask him about a arch he'd never done one, so you can go thru years of work but certain jobs you may have never have touched. Never to old to learn

In my opinion the day you stop learning is the day you hang up your trowel.

**whitebeam** · 13-11-2007

I know a tiler with a service record of 35 years, his dad was a tiler so where going back a few years. Me and a mate were doing a subway and invited him to help, he said I've never done one. I was on a job and phoned him and ask him about a arch he'd never done one, so you can go thru years of work but certain jobs you may have never have touched. Never to old to learn

Brio · 14-11-2007

Rock on Whitebeam, exactly my sentiments.

**Dan** · 14-11-2007

So I think we all agree a book couldn't teach it you all, nor a tiling course. But I think you've got a much better chance getting into the trade if you do a course rather than read a book, i'd buy the book too if you enjoy reading or at least loan a couple from your local library.

**Fekin** · 14-11-2007

While I agree that tiling isn't rocket science too, I believe it is still quite a complicated trade to master as there is always new products and methods coming into the trade with the constant advancment in fixing materials and different weights and make up of tiles to learn, unlike "and this is a presumption" bricklaying.

Brio · 14-11-2007

Fair enough Varley, Please accept my appologies. Maybe I did read more into your post than I should have. Just that when you expressed surprize when I said I was still learning even after 20+yrs in the Tiling Trade, your intimation seemed to suggest that tho my knowledge of the Trade was still somewhat lacking,that you, after doing a short course, could supply that knowledge. If this was not the case, then again I appologise for getting a bit steamed up.

Most of the Tiling I do is On Site work. I seem to do more Tiling than Bricklaying these days. My old bones like it that way. its far better to be indoors Tiling this weather, than to be stood on a scaffold walling in an arctic gale freezing your spuds off.

These days to get on most sites you need a CSCS card, you just wont be allowed on without one. I got one just over a year ago, because it was getting increasingly difficult to get on site without one, and yes it states on my card that I'm a Wall&Floor Tiler, in order to gain that accreditation your skills have to be tested by the CITB-Construction Skills Board.

**whitebeam** · 14-11-2007

The touble is companys are pushing new materials to go on walls, where do you stop, it's getting more complicated. New adhesives, It's becoming a learning curve all the time.

**ChaseTiling** · 15-11-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brio

These days to get on most sites you need a CSCS card, you just wont be allowed on without one. I got one just over a year ago, because it was getting increasingly difficult to get on site without one, and yes it states on my card that I'm a Wall&Floor Tiler, in order to gain that accreditation your skills have to be tested by the CITB-Construction Skills Board.

A sensible move forward

**ChaseTiling** · 15-11-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by versatilene

I wasn't knocking the concept of training centres, A good teacher teaching practically WITH the books as aids is the quickest and best (doesn't matter whether in a centre or on the job). The point is that centres and staff are not regulated in any way for quality or qualifications, anyone can set up (just as anyone can call themselves a pro tiler) The sooner we have regulated standards for both the sooner the customers get quality gauranteed.
I am also sure there are quality centres providing a superb service just as there are quality tilers, just not all of them and somehow we need a way of finding out which is which.

Just for the record here,

We are an accredited CITB / City & Guilds Centre.

To get that status, you need to have:

1. A City & Guilds Quality Assurance strategy in place
2. City & Guilds Learner Strategies in place
3. Regular checks from the CITB to ensure you are complying with policy
4. Each tutor with a teaching qualification
5. Each tutor trade qualified
6. Each tutor A1 assessor qualified
7. Strict checks on learner portfolio's before certification

We have all of the above

To find a centre that is strictly regulated to deliver ACCREDITED tiling training (City & Guilds), then click here:

http://www.caalliance.co.uk/

15-11-2007

I know lots of guys who don't have papers but are good tilers because they have spent years working with time served tilers....books and courses do not come anywhere near hands on experience.........

Now correct me if I am wrong here;but I remember a rep from webber trying to get me to buy some gear from me,and showing me that they run a 2 day tiling course(I may be wrong-could have been 5 days)....what are you going to learn in 5 days? Seriously,it's guys like this clown who are taking lads money....letting them think that they are tilers,when they only have a very basic knowledge of tiling....and sadly it's unfortunate that these guys try to tackle a job out of their league and balls it up,and all they do is tarnish the reputation of the trade that is tiling......feel free to argue or agree..........