versatilene

I wasn't knocking the concept of training centres, A good teacher teaching practically WITH the books as aids is the quickest and best (doesn't matter whether in a centre or on the job). The point is that centres and staff are not regulated in any way for quality or qualifications, anyone can set up (just as anyone can call themselves a pro tiler) The sooner we have regulated standards for both the sooner the customers get quality gauranteed.
I am also sure there are quality centres providing a superb service just as there are quality tilers, just not all of them and somehow we need a way of finding out which is which.

Fekin

I don't think a book and your own bay can take place of doing a actually going on a course.
It would be so easy to read how to do something then start doing it, but do it wrong, and you have no one there to say "hey up, that's wrong, do it like this", so when you know nothing about something, you always need a third party there to keep an eye on what your doing, which a book cannot do.

What would be better is to do a course, then have all your books and practise area in the garage, then your own jobs, kitchen bathroom etc, as experiance on the job will never be beaten by theory alone.

Shuntstick

"somehow we need a way of finding out which is which"
That supports why this forum is very useful and needed.

"Hablo un poco Espana" : I speak a little Spanish.
Anyway, a number of years ago when I first started learning the Spanish language I started with a book "Teach Yourself" .. great, I learned all the basics of a languge and built up vocabulary along the way.
I then moved onto a cassette course for slightly more advanced Spanish (CD was not invented then). As I progressed onto more difficult phrases and grammar I had a number of questions, for example my son asked me: how would you say: "May I ask you how old you are" and I was stumped because I could not remember "May I ask"
Fact being there is no such phrase as "May I" in Spanish, but I did not know that, I could not find it in any of the books or cassette course I owned and I had no one to ask or answer my question.
I found out much later, and most obviously, is to just say "Can I ... puedo"

I've been pretty long winded with one example, sorry, but I was just trying to show how a good book can show you the reader so much, but you need someone to guide you with your questions that will arise in any learning, as a good book, CD or DVD will not reply when you need advice.
I think this forum and the posts regarding training center/courses gives the readers a good idea what courses are good and meet your needs and those that are run by Cowboy fanchisees.

Most people can make up their minds having read this forum, the only thing I do think is very misleading on the websites is the use of the £30-40,000 earning potential of a tiler. Some people will see that and think "wow ... a 5 day course and I'll be earning $$$$$$" that's my only rant .... rant over.

Fekin

Well, it isn't impossible, but it's not easy either.

Some do make good money straight off, but many don't, but many courses do use the "come on our course and then earn big bucks

versatilene

My statement: "to be shown any skill by a good operator is always better than a text book."

quote=Dan;32400]
An ex-teacher congratulating posts that suggest a wanna-be tiler should train with any tiler to get into the trade?

Sorry Iv'e said my bit and was going to leave it at that but I have to respond to your crit (above) of my views.
Please don't misinturpret or jump to incorrect conclusions. My statement doesn't say that, the words 'any' or 'wanna-be' are not in my sentence. It clearly says 'good operator' I don't care whether that's in a centre OR on the job with a tiler, if they are good then they may be able to pass on their knowledge, what we need is a way of recognising who is good without going down the paper chase route as we are here to tile and make a living, not gather certificates.

ChaseTiling

Anybody that has any burning questions about getting value for money, qualifications and realistic expectations, then please call us using the details off the lilnk at the bottom of this post.

We are more than happy to positively involve ourselves with queries, but not to get involved in slanging matches and personal gripes from past experiences and rumours.


Chase Tiling Academy

Tiling NVQ and Tiling Courses
TF Resident NVQ Advisor: Any questions or advice you need on getting an NVQ, then please ask me. Either PM me or post your questions in the NVQ part of the forum, where I shall be sat.

devonmark

Well said...

Plastering & Tiling Solutions.

Mike

Having worked for two manufacturers and one tile distributor in the tile industry I can honestly say that the majority of problems I have come across with tile installations are due to poor workmanship. The problem with the tile industry is that someone can set themselves up as a tiler after reading a book when actually they have never seen a tile being laid. Could someone install a gas boiler or wire in some lights without the relevant qualifications I think not.
I'm not knocking any particular people but generally the standard of tiling in this country is pretty poor and the only way to improve this is through education. Anybody can stick tiles to a wall or floor including myself and in no way do I consider myself to be a tiler but what makes the difference between a good tiler and a bad tiler is knowing how to cope with tricky situations and use products correctly. I've been to site where BAL Ble Star has been used to stick Porcelain to screeded floors, I've seen 300 x 300 ceramic tiles stuck to walls with a small dab of adhesive in each corner and then fall in to the bath and I've seen areas of thousands of metres laid without a movement joint. If the people that had installed these tiles had been educated properly these problem wouldn't have happened.
I would imagine that any credible tiling course or college will now be in some way connected with the Tile Association and I should think this is a bench mark of a worthwile course.
In my experience most of the colleges offering NVQ courses have a staff of people who have served time on the tools and have worked round various problems on site, this info is then passed to the students.
I guess what ;m trying to say is that in my opinion a book is in no way a substitute for a good tiling course.
If the TTA have there way then eventually noboby will be able to tile without a qualification and the paperwork to prove it so education will be the only way. For people looking to get into tiling it would be best to be prepared now and not just rely on something bought from a bookshop.

tiler burden

5 day courses, apprenticeships, books, dvds, free help and advice, forums

there all good if they work and help you get from a-b. theres no definative way, its whatever works for you personally or whats available to you at the time. its all relative, its all non definable...

go with what you have, thats all anyone can do...

hope my 2 pence worth helps

ed

GazTech

Everyone deserves an opportunity,whatever it maybe.Some people may help them,some may rip them off,this is life.When starting out any venture especially work,people should study the pro's and con's and have the freedom of choice to go their own way.I actually heard of an experienced tiler who charged newbies good money to watch him and labour for him....he was of course strung up when caught ..I myself will always help the new breed of craftsmen,and encourage new blood from sitting in a computer chair for a living ...tiling is not only an art..it is also better than twice a week at some backwater gym....by the way Gymnasiums...RIP OFF BASTRDS....massive money when a free run will do.....Gaz

[B]"[I][COLOR=darkgreen]The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten[/COLOR][/I]"[/B]

Brio

I for one have to agree with croc, Tiling is hardly rocket science. I also remember the days when Tiling was classed as semi skilled. & some other Trades also, like Scaffolding & Steel Fixing for example. Having worked in the Building Industry for nearly 40 yrs. Man & boy. I first started Tiling 20+yrs ago with no formal training. the contractor I worked for asked me to do some splash backs in the kitchens & bathrooms of the newbuild houses, which saved me from being rained off. Basic tools were a glass cutter & a pair of nipps. In that time I've developed my own modus operandi,(as we all do)& picked up many good tips from a lot of good tilers I've worked with over the years, & I have to say, I'm still learning. I too have serious doubts about how efective these short term courses are, not only Tiling, but Plumbing, Plastering,Bricklaying,etc. It would be interesting to hear from some people who've done these courses

Kevan8919

Brio, I'm a recent joiner to the tiling trade and you post a couple of interesting points. Your post indicates that you haven't been on any courses and your expertise has been gained from being around trained tilers who passed on information which you have presumably used over the years. The course I've been on covered the basics of tiling 1, Setting out, 2 measuring and cutting ( wet and dry) 3, grouting. We had a wall with sink, window, and two different waste outlets to tile and a floor with irregular sides.
I agree that it takes many years experience to be called a TILER, but without formal training of any kind and learning from a mentor I wonder how long it took you to be comfortable tiling a room without supervision?
After one weeks training I feel that I could tile a complete bathroom now and make a decent job of it, not like some of the obvious experts who subscribe to this forum, but certailnly of a good enough standard that I wouldn't be embarrassed taking someone's money doing it. If I hadn't done the training I wonder how long it would take me to learn by osmosis from a pro.

Kev