We are in the process of restoring our 1920's house.

There is the original tiled floor in the hall which the previous owners had tiled over with an attempt at recreating the original Victorian style floor.

The overtiling was awful, so i've carefully removed the tiles to see what state the original floor is in and its actually pretty good. There are a few damaged tiles and an area of sinkage, but its near to the edge of the floor and some of the tiles are loose so i can easily lift them an re-lay them properly.

However, the tiles laid onto the original floor were laid with a cement type adhesive and there is a lot of adhesive that hasn't come up with the tiles.

Any suggestions on how best to remove this adhesive without damaging the tiles below? Scraping works but its a very, very slow process. I've tried steaming the adhesive which has worked with non cement type adhesive in the past but with no effect.

Can i use brick cleaning acid or will that damage the surface of the tiles? If not, can anyone suggest anything else that will make the removal process easier?

Thanks in advance.

I would say that cement cleaner would attack the surface of the tiles, Polishing with different grade of grit would probably be the best option, firstly to remove the adhesive and then to bring back the original finish to the tiles. Timeless John, Phil Hobson, Dave or Enduro would possibly be the best advisors for you. They will be along soon enough.
Can you post some pictures before they log on as I know that will be the first request from them.

Welcome to the forum by the way.

There are big lumps of the stuff, so it would be a case of chipping away at the worst of it before polishing. But i shall indeed post photos this afternoon.

Thank you for response and the welcome to the forum. I've been a lurker for a while, but this is the first time i've posted.

Images as promised.

Hello and welcome..

Please don't use anything like brick acid, it will etch and even totally discolour the tiles.

The use of a wide blade razor scraper will work on getting the adhesive off them..

A Gundlach scraper is very good for this..



Gundlach 100 mm Scraper








http://www.tradetiler.com/cgi-bin/sh...undlachscraper


You will need to see if any surface damage is present and this can be softened with grades of wet and dry..





Then when this is removed then you can use a a product like Aqua Mix Sealer & Coating Remover, this will remove any old polishes and adhesive residue..

Aqua Mix Sealer & Coating Remover is a non-flammable, multi-purpose stripper formulated to stay wet longer which gives the product time to remove most sealers, epoxy grout haze, urethane coatings, synthetic finishes, adhesives, and paints. Also dissolves deep-set stains and removes heavy grease buildup.

Once cleaned and dry then you can bring lustre and life back to the tiles with Aqua mix Enrich& Seal.. very good product..

Aqua Mix Enrich'N'Seal™ is a premium, no-sheen, enhanced-look 100% Polymer-solid, penetrating sealer

There are loads of other brands like LTP.. but i find these are what i am tending to use most lately ..




If in doubt always get a pro in..

I agree with Dave use a scrapper and take your time,you don't want chip any of the tiles!
Let us know how you get on

I'm with Dave on this, no real quick fix. hard work and patience will pay offgood luck.

Hmmm. Hope I've not done any irreparable damage....

Inbetween my post with photos and your replies I had an 'expert' tile cleaner come round to quote for the repairs. He wasn't keen on the job as he said it was uneconomical for him to remove the adhesive. But suggested brick acid was the right thing to use....

So I've had a go with some.

It's a very slow process but on the area I've done it's actually made a very good job. It doesn't appear to react with the tiles at all whereas it fizzes away when its in contact with the adhesive.

I'm away from home this weekend but I'll post photos for comment on the area I've done tomorrow

Originally Posted by lower

Hmmm. Hope I've not done any irreparable damage....

Inbetween my post with photos and your replies I had an 'expert' tile cleaner come round to quote for the repairs. He wasn't keen on the job as he said it was uneconomical for him to remove the adhesive. But suggested brick acid was the right thing to use....

So I've had a go with some.

It's a very slow process but on the area I've done it's actually made a very good job. It doesn't appear to react with the tiles at all whereas it fizzes away when its in contact with the adhesive.

I'm away from home this weekend but I'll post photos for comment on the area I've done tomorrow

I am surprised that you used brick acid after the advice warning against it. Your tiles may look nice and clean but you are causing needless damage to them, restoring your floor is a planned process that you need to go through in stages to achieve the desired finish.
Brick acid will attack everything it touches including eating away the grout and etching through to the substrate below.
I cant advise you enough to stop using it now.
As for the 'expert' how can it be uneconomical for him to remove the adhesive? He is on a price to complete the job as you requested, 'uneconomical' sounds like he does not like a bit of hard graft.

I have stopped using the acid following the consensus of advice on here.

I may have misrepresented the tile restorers comments. His concern was that it may be uneconomic to restore the floor as the extent of the damage is hidden by the adhesive.

Hence my attempt on a small area to see how well it comes up.

Scraping the adhesive off without some sort of chemical assistance doesn't seem viable as it took me 4 hours to do a square metre. I chipped and scrapped most of it off but the residue wouldn't shift without the assistance of the acid.

So I'm not sure how to progress from here.

Use the products i posted above..

Originally Posted by Dave

Use the products i posted above..

Dave, your post above is amazing, thorough guidance from start to finish - brilliant. I just tried to click the reputation button for it but was told I have to 'spread it about a bit' (!!!) before giving it to you again, ....ehm ...wot??!!! Anyhow, full marks

as Dave has posted there is no quick fix time and patients

Right.

I got myself a small, sharp bolster chisel and with that have been able to remove much more of the adhesive which gives me a much easier job removing the residue with a scraper (i already have one like the one in Dave's post). This is enabling me to get down to only a small amount of residue that hopefully the aquamix cleaner will remove.

I do seem to have got away with my use of the brick acid on the area i used it on. See photos below:





However, where the adhesive had been applied thickly to the yellow tiles it appears to have bleached them. Its not a result of the acid because you can see the bleaching in my original photos before i'd even tried to remove any of the adhesive with any chemical.

When the tiles are wet, the bleaching is invisible. Will the aquamix enrich and seal help reduce the bleached effect when the tiles are dry? I'm guessing that it gives more of a 'wet look' effect to bring the colour out of the tiles?

Apart from the bleaching i'm very encouraged with the condition of the floor and grateful for the advice i've had on here. If the bleaching effect can be reduced it will certainly be worth the effort to restore.

The Enrich and seal will darken the tiles yes....

Looking good.. you getting there..

The enrich and seal is expensive so i want to be sure that it will darken the tile significantly.

An ebay seller suggested putting olive oil on a tile as this will give a similar effect, albeit short lived.

Is that realistic or am i being given bad advice again.....

Originally Posted by lower

The enrich and seal is expensive so i want to be sure that it will darken the tile significantly.

An ebay seller suggested putting olive oil on a tile as this will give a similar effect, albeit short lived.

Is that realistic or am i being given bad advice again.....

Bad advice..oil will attract dirt, and you will never be able to remove the oil.

Lower, congrats on being able to bring your old floor back to life! It looks great and it's nice to see a 90 year old floor looking almost as good as new. I don't see any cracks in it, which is typical for an old "mud set" tile floor.

I second Enduro on the olive oil-save that for your salad. The Enrich and Seal is a great product and well worth the $$ if that's the look that you want.

Hi Dave

I have being trying to post a few comments on this thread as it a specialist subject and one we do a lot of and having typed up twice, the system wouldn't let me submit my reply

Its all to do with acid - the pros and cons etc and could be important to the orginator - ' Lower '

Any reason m8

Richard

Again, its poor powers of explanation letting me down.

The ebay seller suggest i test a tile by putting some olive oil on it as it will give the same effect as enrich and seal. If the olive oil darkens the tile sufficiently to disguise the bleaching then the enrich and seal will do the same and therefore be worth spending the money on.

He didn't suggest coating the whole floor in olive oil

Anyway, as the work continues (i'm cleaning a small area each night) i've come across an area of sinkage where the floor sounds quite hollow and the tiles are moving slightly.

I would really like to lift these tiles and bed them in properly at the correct height. However, the tiles are laid without grout and a tight fit.

Can anyone suggest how i can best lift the first tile without damaging it? Obviously once the first tile is up i can easily then lift the other affect tiles.

Based on some loose tiles at the edge of the floor, the tiles appear to have been laid on a crumbly bed of sand and cement. I'm guessing some sort of lime screed.

Originally Posted by Richard Edwards

Hi Dave

I have being trying to post a few comments on this thread as it a specialist subject and one we do a lot of and having typed up twice, the system wouldn't let me submit my reply

Its all to do with acid - the pros and cons etc and could be important to the orginator - ' Lower '

Any reason m8

Richard

Richard,

I'm guessing the system is now letting you post. I'd be keen to recieve any and all advice you have to offer.

Its a shame all you professionals aren't closer. I have tried and failed to find anyone to come and do the repair and restoration for me in my area (leicestershire)

Ok Lower - I'll have another go at it

Firstly - Liecestershire is way out of my patch and I fear we we would be OTT on costs, although your type of job is standard to us - some one might be able to help you although from the details posted so far your well one the way so maybe you can complete it yourself.

Anyway - What I am about say will probably raise a few eyebrows and could even get me shot at dawn by a good many members of this forum, never being worried about such reactions, I'll stick my head up to see how many seconds it takes to start the onslaught.

We / I do a great number of restoration works on Victorian Floors - yours is not is Art-Deco period but the principle is the same, and we are often faced with cement residues, not as much as yours I admit. We use acid mixtures - normally hydrochloric but occasionally sulphuric in low solution strengths. It is safe on unglazed quarry tiles, victorian tiles etc, however you need be careful when using it on old glazed tiles as it can etch the glaze.

I apply it as a low strength solution - max 15% either as brick acid / brick cleaner etc using an old stiff paint brush, rotary action. It will foam and hiss a bit as the lime in the cement is broken down / dissolves and as the ph of the result residue reachs neutral it will cease to work. Clean this off and re-apply until the cement is all lifted off.

Now the critical bit - double rinse the areas and then after all acid operations has been completed, take another clean cold bucket of water, add a small - I mean small !! quanity of caustic soda to the rinse water and wash the floor really well. Rinse with clean water again ! and dry out.

If you have dissolved any grout - so what, simiply regrout - bearing in mind that any repairs etc will need regrouting anyway.

We would use either LTP / HG impregnator - min 2 coats to protect the floor and restore the colour and then either LTP Satin Ironwax or our preferred choice HG Golvpolish satin - 5 OR 6 Coats and bob is your uncle.

I forgot to mention that we are helped by having some pretty effective machinery to aid our cleaning processes - too expensive for DIY guys but it our investment with a whole range of pads , brushes and diamond cutting gear too. You will not have this available to you, but you will be able to achieve comparable results - it will just take you a lot longer and more effort.

Just to show what can be done - Here's a typical example of our restoration work

Rich will agree that you have to careful of over wetting if you are not sure of the substrate.. you could de-bond the whole lot if lime mortar fixed.

HG golv is good but does need regular removal and re-application...

A colour intensifier like Aqua mix Enrich & seal or LTP colour intensifier doesn't.. but they leave a matt finish where as golv will be a semi gloss to full gloss depending on coats.

My issue with acid is.. not really advisable just to say to the DIY'ers to use it.. Please be very careful and where correct masks etc.

Dave - Sorry I forgot to mention the PPE aspect - I did in my original post but had to re-type it as system problem and tried to hurry the post the second time around.

Yes your absolutely spot on

Do not use more acid solution than you need ie do not over wet and definately do not over wet if the grout joints are wide / cracked / missing

Second and most importantly - always use industrial chemical gloves, either full face mask or at min glogges / polycarb glasses and we use acid fume respirator as well - 3M type with a cartridge. We have a bucket of clean water handy and also an eye wash bottle on the door step just in case.

Thanks Dave for picking me up - don't want to get the DIY folk in hot water.

We don't want them keeling over.

Congrats on that restoration job Richard, exellent piece of work

Hi Richard, nice restoration job. Do you have an approximate date for the original installation?

Very interesting info on the acid.

Where i used it i found it to be very effective but i did rinse well a number of times and then washed the tiles with an alkaline propietry floor cleaner with the intention of neutralising any remaining acid.

I'm glad i've not caused any irreparable damage, and yes i did wear suitable PPE.

My tiles appear to have no grout between them at all. They are just butted together.

Is that normal? Any further advice as to how i can lift a tile in the sunk area?

I'm making steady progress cleaning the floor of the adhesive at the rate of approx 6-10 tiles per night. But i'm concerned that the sunk areas might be more than i can take on. I'm pretty handy on the diy front and have done plenty of amateur tiling that i've made a decent job of but i really don't want to end up ruining the floor and having to lift and re-lay the whole thing!

Anyone? All advice to this point has been very much appreciated.

Originally Posted by Rob Z

Hi Richard, nice restoration job. Do you have an approximate date for the original installation?

Hello Rob

It will be 1890/1905 ish - They are a lot of late Victorian property in our area and this is fairly typical

Richard