Hi it seems that a lot of people on here seem to want to know about grouts and grout spacer joints well here you go.

The purpose of a grout is to give the tiling its structural strength and also allow for movement but it does not expand if it did there would be no need for expansion joints end off.

What can be used for grout

1. Mortar (old way of grouting)
2.Tile and Grout ( D2T adhesive which can used for tiling and grouting)
3.Wall grout ( Type C for Cementious And G stands for Grout = CG and there is CG2 flexible)
4.Floor Grout ( Type C for Cementious And G stands for Grout = CG and there is CG2 flexible)
5.Epoxy Grout (Type R 2 part)
The above come in narrow, wide, flexible and antibacterial except for the Epoxy Grout.

The best grout of all is Epoxy you can’t get any better, its not cheap and it doesn’t spread very easy and its not recommended on all types of tiles and mainly used in kitchens and areas of where chemicals are used (area 51).

Water Proof and Water resistant

Water Proof means it can be submerged in water and not be effected, water resistant means it can take splashes of water in a few words and it won’t fail.

Antibacterial Grout which a few people in the trade say is a con normally contains a well known product called micro ban help stops mould and bacteria from growing. Epoxy does not need this because it is not porous.

What Is the Correct Spacer Size Or Grout line?

1.The tile spacer can enhance the appearance of the tiling. I always ask the customer what they want !!
2. When your setting your tiles out this can help you get round small cuts just increase the spacer by a 1mm and see what a difference it makes or decrease.
3. If you have irregular shape tiles use a wider grout line it works a like a charm.

Getting down to the technical sides of the correct size grout line is like a mine field because its like a catch 22. There are Pros and cons which in the domestic field of tiling does not really matter, its more in the commercial field of tiling where it counts

Getting down to the technical sides of the correct size grout line is like a mine field because its like a catch 22. There are Pros and cons which in the domestic field of tiling does not really matter, its more in the commercial field of tiling where it counts
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and british standards to work to! Floors are 5mm and walls 2-3 mm i think. Happy to be told otherwise mind.

cheers for the input i believe swiming pools are 2mm

hi. i m new to this forum...
just want to ask actually what is the best grout lines for tiles between...?
normal white powder cement is just not good.
actually i want something that is long lasting and yet waterproof.
I remembered once i stayed at a hotel, the grout lines is as hard as a rock yet waterproof. It is white in colour. I tried to scracth it with a coin, really hard to rip off that grout sealant i think...
pls give me an idea !!!
Thanx in advance

Epoxy grout ...

And welcome to tilers forums..

Originally Posted by Proper Job

Water Proof and Water resistant

Water Proof means it can be submerged in water and not be effected, water resistant means it can take splashes of water in a few words and it won’t fail.

Antibacterial Grout which a few people in the trade say is a con normally contains a well known product called micro ban help stops mould and bacteria from growing. Epoxy does not need this because it is not porous.

Waterproof means water can't pass through. The only product in tile aplications that is waterproof, is epoxy.
Cement based and D2 adhesives are water resistant. Which means they can get wet, but they won't break down.
Only BAL grouts have microban technology in them.

Originally Posted by Branty

Waterproof means water can't pass through. The only product in tile aplications that is waterproof, is epoxy.
Cement based and D2 adhesives are water resistant. Which means they can get wet, but they won't break down.
Only BAL grouts have microban technology in them.

And Dunlop ?

Originally Posted by Holohana

and british standards to work to! Floors are 5mm and walls 2-3 mm i think. Happy to be told otherwise mind.

BS for walls is 2mm minimum and for floors 3mm minimum.

Talking about BS's, what is your take on the BS for backerboards being 10mm min for floors?
I only ask as I was told Hardiebacker say 6mm is their recommended thickness.

Originally Posted by Droopy

BS for walls is 2mm minimum and for floors 3mm minimum.

Talking about BS's, what is your take on the BS for backerboards being 10mm min for floors?
I only ask as I was told Hardiebacker say 6mm is their recommended thickness.

I haven't seen the new bs5385 for wall and floor tiling james....does it state this in the new revised edition...?..

Originally Posted by Dave

I haven't seen the new bs5385 for wall and floor tiling james....does it state this in the new revised edition...?..

For the backerboard thickness, Dave?

That is the min' we can recommend for overboarding, so I think it must be.

Originally Posted by Sir Ramic

And Dunlop ?

Yes, Dunlop too.

Originally Posted by Droopy

For the backerboard thickness, Dave?

That is the min' we can recommend for overboarding, so I think it must be.

I know that BAL recommend 10mm for floors james..but is it a BS standard or just BAL guidline for their guarantee..?

Originally Posted by Dave

I know that BAL recommend 10mm for floors james..but is it a BS standard or just BAL guidline for their guarantee..?

Now that you have said that Dave, i am not so sure.

But I was under the impression that it is a BS.

And that in fact all our 'guidelines' were all based on BS's.

Though maybe Gaz or Danny could help clear this one up...

Originally Posted by Droopy

Now that you have said that Dave, i am not so sure.

But I was under the impression that it is a BS.

And that in fact all our 'guidelines' were all based on BS's.

Though maybe Gaz or Danny could help clear this one up...

Now that's interesting james......because BS5385 doesn't state that you have to use an addititve( polymor) in standard or rapid setting cement based adhesives when tiling to concrete floors( un-heated etc ), but BAL now say this....

So that means that ......

1. CTF3
2. Gold star
3. Rapid set
4. Super cover
5 . ptb

all have to have AD1 added for tiling to concrete....to have BAL's guarantee.....

Now there is a difference to giving a guarantee and it bieng a BS standard...don't you think..?...

Now that BAL have added this issue to using there adhesives then i think that they need to let customers know where they stand...or do they just continue using there products as normal and with NO guarantee's....?..

Originally Posted by Dave

I know that BAL recommend 10mm for floors james..but is it a BS standard or just BAL guidline for their guarantee..?

This is only a guideline for Bal guarantees, if BS changes to this as we know BS is only a guideline anyway and not a rule....Gaz

Originally Posted by Dave

Now that's interesting james......because BS5385 doesn't state that you have to use an addititve( polymor) in standard or rapid setting cement based adhesives when tiling to concrete floors( un-heated etc ), but BAL now say this....

So that means that ......

1. CTF3
2. Gold star
3. Rapid set
4. Super cover
5 . ptb

all have to have AD1 added for tiling to concrete....to have BAL's guarantee.....

Now there is a difference to giving a guarantee and it bieng a BS standard...don't you think..?...

Now that BAL have added this issue to using there adhesives then i think that they need to let customers know where they stand...or do they just continue using there products as normal and with NO guarantee's....?..

It is down to customers to seek the advise of the professional doing the job or the adhesive manufacturer. In the not too distant future cement based adhesive not enhanced with polymers will be a thing of the past..IMO

Originally Posted by Dave

Now that's interesting james......because BS5385 doesn't state that you have to use an addititve( polymor) in standard or rapid setting cement based adhesives when tiling to concrete floors( un-heated etc ), but BAL now say this....

So that means that ......

1. CTF3
2. Gold star
3. Rapid set
4. Super cover
5 . ptb

all have to have AD1 added for tiling to concrete....to have BAL's guarantee.....

Now there is a difference to giving a guarantee and it bieng a BS standard...don't you think..?...

Now that BAL have added this issue to using there adhesives then i think that they need to let customers know where they stand...or do they just continue using there products as normal and with NO guarantee's....?..

I think that is down to the fact if you have a concrete floor, unless it is suspended concrete floor, it will more than likely have a S&C screed over it.

So here, the 'concrete floor' is refering to suspended concrete floors, so in this case nothing has changed.
As BAL have advised that AD1 be added to those adhesives, for that type of flooring system, in the past too.

But I will try to clarify that tomorrow when I am down is Stoke.

EDIT.

Regarding the use of these on concrete/dense blockwork, again AD1 has been the recommendation in the past too.

But I do take your point about guidelines, which Gaz rightly points out BS are too.

Originally Posted by GazTech

This is only a guideline for Bal guarantees, if BS changes to this as we know BS is only a guideline anyway and not a rule....Gaz

Gaz, I think I might have picked up DW wrong in a conversation regarding 6mmV10mm tile backer board with this.

My bad.

Originally Posted by Droopy

Gaz, I think I might have picked up DW wrong in a conversation regarding 6mmV10mm tile backer board with this.

My bad.

I raised the question with Bal 2 years ago while at Topps, I didn't think 6mm Hardibacker was thick or strong enough to be structurally suitable to avoid deflection on timber flooring. Bal said they would only recommend 10mm boards with SPF back then, as a consequence I would only sell Fastflex with 6mm overlay if height was an issue with my customers...Gaz

I think here in lies the problem.
BAL have taken the technical data available on cement boards. As far as we are concerned 6mm is not strong enough.
Now other adhesive manufacturers, may say they don't have a problem with cement board of 6mm thickness.
IHO they are basically saying, 'if the cement board manufacturer is saying 6mm is OK for floors, then you can use our products'.
If you have a failure on one of these floors, the only guarantee an adhesive manufacture has to uphold, is on their adhesive.
So they'll take away a sample of their adhesive. If it meets up to their formula, they will assume (and rightly so) that the problem was something on site beyond their control. If thats 6mm cement board, then you're left to take that up with the manufacturer of the board.
Just my opinion.

Originally Posted by Branty

I think here in lies the problem.
BAL have taken the technical data available on cement boards. As far as we are concerned 6mm is not strong enough.
Now other adhesive manufacturers, may say they don't have a problem with cement board of 6mm thickness.
IHO they are basically saying, 'if the cement board manufacturer is saying 6mm is OK for floors, then you can use our products'.
If you have a failure on one of these floors, the only guarantee an adhesive manufacture has to uphold, is on their adhesive.
So they'll take away a sample of their adhesive. If it meets up to their formula, they will assume (and rightly so) that the problem was something on site beyond their control. If thats 6mm cement board, then you're left to take that up with the manufacturer of the board.
Just my opinion.

You see, that was my take on it too.
But i also thought that BS's were there to help manufacturers of different things like backerboards and adhesives to find some common ground to base recommendations on.

Maybe, as yet, they have yet to come to an agreement between all these manufacturers that allows them to set a min standard for backerboards.
But it seems i made a mistake in thinking they already had.

It is interesting this Hardie stuff. The 6mm hardie ia a denser product than the 10mm according to Hardie spec sheets and was designed specifically for floors. Whether it adds strength or not has been questioned before and as yet Hardie has not provided any definitive answer.

It would be good to get this clarified if possible.......Holahana?????

Personally i wouldnt use a backer board for strength anyway.

Other parts of the world, such as downunder, don't consider either 6 or 10mm cementboard (hardi etc) to add any significant strength to a floor. It's merely deemed a more stable substrate for tile than plywood. I think if you approach it with that attitude - get the subfloor up to minimum deflection standards (l/360 over there?) you'll be right.

Over here, the benchmark for floor strength is 22mm chipboard on joists with 30cm spacing. Anything weaker than that has to be reinforced before recieving tiles, and that's either done with a minimum of 12mm SLC reinforced with 2.5mm rebar netting, or through gluing 12mm fibercementboards or floor grade plasterboards (alot denser, heavier, and more rigid than regular ones) with cement based adhesive, specifically C2F/S1-S2 type adhesive.

hello...friend...
just want to ask u all, what type of product for tile joint is waterproof???
white cement is just not good...
My problem is my bathroom water is leaking to the unit of lower unit.
i need it desprately. pls recommend...

Originally Posted by kok123

hello...friend...
just want to ask u all, what type of product for tile joint is waterproof???
white cement is just not good...
My problem is my bathroom water is leaking to the unit of lower unit.
i need it desprately. pls recommend...

Epoxy grout is waterproof, but if you have a leak, you need to be very sure it is just the grout joints causing the problem. If your grout has cracked and leaking why has it cracked? Just replacing the current grout with epoxy stuff may not actually solve the problem.

hello grumpygrouter.
Thanks for ur reply...
Actually i am doing waterproofing job here.
I do pu grouting all the times.
After searching for better product ex. kiss polymer..it can waterproof concrete.
As u know, the tiles spacer if it just replace the white cement it would not last long.
I m searching for , as u said epoxy grout..
Example..bathroom floor trap leaking, i can use the kiss polymer , apply it to the concrete and all the things i need to do.
But for the grout lines, i need ur help..
Where can i get the epoxy grout??
i m In Malaysia..
Tq in advance

Hi TQ, I am afraid I really don't know what to suggest about finding epoxy grout. Maybe if you check out Ardex Global Loading... you may find somewhere in your country that supplies it. They make an epoxy grout but I have never used it.

Hiya kok123 here are the details of mapei in malyasia..they will be able to tell you who stocks mapei kerapoxy in malaysia.....

good luck..

Mapei Sdn. Bhd (Malaysia) PT 521, Batu 23 - Jalan Ravang Jalan Batang Berjuntai - 48000 Rawang - Selangor Darul Ehsan - Malaysia Phone +60-3-60935799 Fax +60-3-60915801 mapei@mapei.com.my

thanks dave.
will contact the supplier.
million tq to all.