Hi guys
Just wondered if anyone can help / advise on a situation i have come across. Their is a tiled floor on a job which is a fair size as in 300m2 plus. The floor has been laid on a cement screed but not sure which type it was i think it may have a polished surface. The floor had not been primed and now the tiles are de bonding in areas. adhesive used was spf grey and laid with all correct expansion joints we belive its a because of the primer not being done.


Is there any soloution to this befor the whole floor comes up can we inject between joints etc is there anything we can do to prevent a whole rip up of the floor ??????????

was any matting used ?

is there any ufh and when was it commisioned

i cant think of anything you can do, except take up and re-do,do you have any pic's of the job ?

Definitely a cement screed and not anhydrite?

Really need to know exactly what screed it is and the finish.. we can only guess till we know what it is..

not mating used / sorry no pics as of yet as it just looks like a laid floor at the moment / no ufh at all / and definatly not anhydrite screed.

what type of tiles are they ?

If its polished concrete and no primer used that could be the problem (no key) expansion joints would need be spot on in a floor that size

i will try and find out the screed it is. defo expansions are ok if not more than enough they are a porcelain 600x300

was the screed new? if so how new?, was the screed good or was it dusting ? where the tiles dusty/waxy ? was it fast setting addy ?

A floor of that size would have been specified through a contractor/architect.
Find the details from them and bring in the adhesive manufacturers to assess the failure.
What evidence do you have that NO primer was used?

yes just found out no screed its power floated slab no dusting and tiles were clean and fine and we used a rapid set and was tiled in the winter

Hi guys just found out it was a power floated screed

weber.set SPF - Weber, world

click on applications then scroll down to concrete.
most adh manufactures recommend a float finish for tiling or with steel trowl finishes scabbling primer may of helped.
would be interesting when you lift a tile if the adh is stuck to the tile or to the concrete will give you a definite answer

how do i find this

Originally Posted by michaelb4348

how do i find this

find what

when you lift a tile if the adh remains stuck to the concrete it means it has stuck well to the concrete meaning the problem lies either with the tile or lack of expansion within the tiles .If the adh comes of the concrete reasonably clean the problem lies there not enough key or dust or the moisture may of been sucked out of the adh due to a dry slab (normally controlled by priming) hope this helps

what you put above i cant find where it says applications

Concrete
Allow at least 7 weeks before tiling onto new concrete. Surface should be clean and free from laitance - scabbling is recommended.
Set time will be extended on dense or power floated screeds.

scroll down till you find this

PREPARATION



MIXING



APPLICATION



STORAGE AND SHELF LIFE



HEALTH AND SAFETY



TECHNICAL SERVICES



SALES CONTACT

The same has happened to me on a new build, my floor has been laid since December and during the recent hot weather the tiles raised roughly 1.5 to 2 inches, this has resulted in half the floor denbonding. The tiles were laid directly onto a concrete power floated floor and a 600 x 600 mirrored quartz tile. Will we need to take all the tiles up and they are laid continiuosly in the kitchen, hall and dinning room.

have your tiles peaked (raised of the floor ) and is there any movement joints in the tiling or expansion joints

Yes they have peaked and there are no movement joints, however the tiles only go just behind the kitchen unit plyth leaving a gap from the units to the wall. We are going to take up one of the tiles tomorrow to see if it is down to the installation of the tiles or the concrete floor itself. I am hoping in a way it is something to do with the floor (as it is a new build), just the tiles themselves cost me £4,500 and my dad laid them for me (believe me he has laid tiles numerous times before and he has done an excellent job)
.

if you can just find out a few things ,age of slab before tiling ,what glue grout and primer were used .and the size of the floor ,sounds more like the lack of expansion joints might be the problem ,some pics of the problem and maybe a pic of the lifted tile would help

The slabs were bought and laid within a week of purchase, we had to wait 2 weeks for them to be imported, they are Startec Mirrored quartz tiles. The glue used was Tilemaster ExtraBond and the grout was Granfix Hygienic Maxigrout. No primer was used. The dimension are as follows: Utility Room 1900mm x 1605mm which leads onto the Kitchen 5630mm x 4095, which leads onto the hall 545mm x 4030mm, the downstairs wc runs off the hall and is 1175 x 1605 and the dinning room is 3610 x 2775 and runs off the kitchen. I have photos on my phone but I am unable to download them at this moment in time.

Sorry by slab i mean the substrate as in concrete ,and how long it was down before tiling ,and with all these areas there is no expansion joint.

Only me could get the wrong end of the stick with your question. With regards to the concrete slab all I know is that it is a "power floated concrete floor suitable to receive floor covering" (as stated in the spec). Not sure how long it was down for I do know that the house was built, bought and moved in to within 6 months.

Sorry if this is insufficient.

Nah you should be right with the curing time on the concrete, best bet is to upload the pics when you can,one of the tile lifted would help .showing the adh on the concrete and the back of the tile,The power floats are good but can also give a glass effect to concrete (if the blades are lifted ) in hindsight they should leave the blades flat (flat trowel) so that tile adh has something to grab (reason i recommend primer as it gives a better bond ) Will wait on pics

jay

Thanks jay

Hi Jay

As promised I have lifted 2 tiles and attached photographs of the floor and the back of the tile which is completley free from adhesive.