Hello all, I put up a post a while ago on grouting (see link below). To most pro tilers on here this was a bit like teaching you to suck eggs but I hope that a few people picked one or two tips up that helped them out.

Grouting...

I wanted to put up another post about grouting with epoxy. It seems that a lot of people (including tilers) shy away from using epoxy because they have herd horror stories about it (like we all have). Epoxy grouts have changes a huge amount over the years and it really is not something to hide away from anymore. If I was doing my own tiling, I would use epoxy all the way way through and not bother with cementitious grouts. The primary advantage to using epoxy over cement based grouts (without going into its chemical resistance properties) is that epoxy does not absorb any water. All cement based grouts absorb water and then release it, when this happens the grout also absorbs dirt and oils that stain the grout and makes it change its colour. Because epoxy does not absorb water and dirt, it does not give bacteria anywhere to thrive.
I like to use Mapei Kerapoxy basically because it nice to use and comes in a lot of different colours but there are loads out there and everybody has their favorites.


Kerapoxy

kerapoxy.bmp


Kerapoxy is a two-component, acid resistant epoxy for joints more than 3mm, available in 26 colours. It may also be used as an adhesive. Particularly suitable for hygiene areas and where resistance to aggressive chemical substances is required.

For use in the food industry, industrial floors and walls, swimming pools - especially those containing spa or sea water, laboratory benches.


Kerapoxy Design


Kerapoxy design.bmp


Kerapoxy Design is a two-compnent, decorative, satin finish, acid-resistant epoxy mortar for grouting glass mosaics, ceramic tiles and stone material with particular aesthetic value. Available in 8 colours. Also suitable as an adhesive and grouting thin mosaics


Mapeglitter

Mapeglitter is a metallic coloured glitter to be mixed with Kerapoxy Design to form a sparkly metallic grouting mortar suitable for grouting joints in all types of tiles but particularly effective when used together with metallic or glass tiles and mosaics.



I was using the Kerapoxy on a floor this week so I thoughtthat I would show some pics. Very basic kitchen floor, sorry if the pics are not very good, it was very very very hot and the epoxy was setting fast.

By far the most important thing about using epoxy grout is to know what you are using. This may sound silly but I think most people get into trouble by picking it up and using it like normal grout. As long as you know what to expect, you cant go far wrong. Once the epoxy has set then there is nothing (that I know of) that will remove it and when it starts to set it can set incredibly quickly so it is very important to have everything ready before you begin. It makes life a lot easier if there are two people doing the grouting. I like to get as many clean buckets a of water as possible (I also keep a bucket of water and sponge by the door to wash my shoes off before going in or out of the room), these want to be really clean and usually fill about 5. Then I wash the floor off with clean water to remove any dust or grit off the face of the tile (the joints should already be cleaner out). With cement based grout, you dont want to get the tiles wet before grouting, with epoxy, water is your friend, dont be afraid to get them wet, this will help when it comes to clean up. Next I put on 3 pairs of laytex gloves, this makes it quick and easy if I get the epoxy on my hands to whip a pair off and carry on, you do not want to get the epoxy on your skin if you can help it.





FBridge,draycotts 024.jpg The epoxy and emulsifying pads


FBridge,draycotts 026.jpg Plenty of clean water



FBridge,draycotts 017.jpg The clean floor before grouting



FBridge,draycotts 027.jpg This is how the 2-part epoxy comes to you



FBridge,draycotts 028.jpg You must mix ALL of part A and ALL of part B together



FBridge,draycotts 029.jpg


FBridge,draycotts 030.jpg It is best to mix the two components with a electric paddle mixer set at a low speed. Make sure that it is really well mixed.


FBridge,draycotts 031.jpg The epoxy is very thick, I use an epoxy grout float and I only use the shortest edge of it as I find it easier to fill the joints. It is easy here to leave hollows in the grout or to put the grout out using the float. Make sure that you really pack the joints with the grout, dont worry to much about how much is left on the face of the tile.


FBridge,draycotts 033.jpg As you work your way backwards make sure that you keep an eye on the grout, be careful that the epoxy does not start to set, if it starts to, then one of you drop off the grouting and begin emulsifying.


FBridge,draycotts 034.jpg Use the emulsifying pads with plenty of clean water in small circles to looses the grout on the face of the tile. At this stage I dont worry to much about the joints themselves, I just make sure that I emulsify and break down the grout on the surface of the tile. You can see that after this stage, it leaves a "milky" residue on the tile.


FBridge,draycotts 037.jpg Now you can start removing the "milky" residue with clean sponges and clean water. You can also start to dress the joints but be careful that you do not mark them as the grout should still be soft


FBridge,draycotts 038.jpg


FBridge,draycotts 039.jpg After the first wash off with the sponge you can relax. I like to leave the grout for about 10-15 min before the second wash. This is where a lot of people go wrong, the floor will now look finished but it is so important that you remove ALL of the residue, I tend to go over the floor about 5 times with clean water and sponge each time. If you walked away from this floor now it would be ruined.


FBridge,draycotts 040.jpg From this point on the floor will look pretty much the same after each wash. Each wash I pay more attention to the joints to get them nice and smooth. The last 2 washes I wipe the tile with one side of the sponge before washing it out, it takes a long time but this is the best way I have found to get the tiles totally clean. A wash boy is a handy tool to use here.


FBridge,draycotts 042.jpg


FBridge,draycotts 044.jpg


FBridge,draycotts 022.jpg My reward

Nice post Rich. With your and Rob's (Spanish) help I am now a convert, too, it's lovely to work with, I got a bit on my skin and it didn't seem to matter, but saying that there were a couple of red blotches on my arm later which may have come from it, not sure, but I didn't get the aggressive smell or feel from it as I had dreaded. Can't take soja flour or red wine, but epoxy seemed ok really! Epoxy seems almost like those fear inducing words, like cancer, a generic name that puts the fear of god in people, because of its history and now, with progress that fear has so often so unnecessary. I just wish it was less expensive, that's all, but to work with, well, it's no problem.

Very good post, bet that curlywurly tasted great after that!!!! I cant stop at 1 need 2 or 3 of them.

My brother (and partner) used to work in the marine industry and obviously knows his epoxies, but the stuff he used to work with is serious stuff compared to this, it has prob made me over cautious. If you want to hear real horror stories have a chat with him


From what I can gather epoxy is a cumulative poison and if you come into contact with it to much it can be horrid. As I said tho this is regarding the super strong evil stuff that he used to use, I just think thats its better to be safe. I still manage to get it all up my arms when I use it, never had anything more than a rash but my god, it makes good hair removal wax if you dont get it off before it sets!!!

Originally Posted by ROBSON MCGREGOR

Very good post, bet that curlywurly tasted great after that!!!! I cant stop at 1 need 2 or 3 of them.

It had melted

good post

What is the working time/ pot life of the mapei gear Rich? Nice post by the way, informative as always.

Im not sure off the top of my head to be honest mate, I will have a look in the morning and let you know. I think its about 45mins pot life but i will say that it is different each time I use it, the temperature and humidity seem to play a big part. Also the Kerapoxy Design seem to be even nicer to work with, much easier to knock up and you seem to have a lot longer to play with it.

Good information Rich and the thread title will be easy to find

Originally Posted by Rich

Im not sure off the top of my head to be honest mate, I will have a look in the morning and let you know. I think its about 45mins pot life but i will say that it is different each time I use it, the temperature and humidity seem to play a big part. Also the Kerapoxy Design seem to be even nicer to work with, much easier to knock up and you seem to have a lot longer to play with it.

The only epoxy I've used is weber and it sounds quite similar, easy to use and clean, also after 30 mins or so if you stick the paddle back through it, it would go for a bit longer.

I havnt used the Weber stuff. Iv never had any problems with it setting off on me but then again I always do it with 2 people, makes life so much easier. Having said that I didnt half work up a sweat on tue doing that floor, wow that was warm!

Originally Posted by Rich

It had melted

Awh...

Originally Posted by Mosaic Girl

Awh...

Thanks, it was tough but I got through it, just. Made a right mess though, gochocolatete everywhere. I might put up a post on how to eat and wash off a melted curly wurly using the emulsifying pads

Originally Posted by Rich

Thanks, it was tough but I got through it, just. Made a right mess though, gochocolatete everywhere. I might put up a post on how to eat and wash off a melted curly wurly using the emulsifying pads

That was meant to say "got chocolate everywhere" my spell check seems to be dyslexic


I took some pics of the outside area as well, this is going to be tiled and grouted with epoxy as well as the kitchen. I will try to remember to put up some pics of the tiling and some shots of it all finished up.


FBridge,draycotts 050.jpg FBridge,draycotts 051.jpg FBridge,draycotts 052.jpg FBridge,draycotts 054.jpg FBridge,draycotts 053.jpg

Some prep work there...

Originally Posted by Rich

That was meant to say "got chocolate everywhere" my spell check seems to be dyslexic


I took some pics of the outside area as well, this is going to be tiled and grouted with epoxy as well as the kitchen. I will try to remember to put up some pics of the tiling and some shots of it all finished up.


FBridge,draycotts 050.jpg FBridge,draycotts 051.jpg FBridge,draycotts 052.jpg FBridge,draycotts 054.jpg FBridge,draycotts 053.jpg

Boy, that looks seriously hard work, respect! How do you prepare all that lot then? Take it all up, what? And what about drainage and stuff? Wow...

Cracking thread, so good i STICKIED IT

Thank you mate

If there is anything that anybody wants to add, feel free.

Originally Posted by whitebeam

Some prep work there...

What do you mean Mark, might need priming


The lot is being ripped out and dug out ready for a new slab.

Originally Posted by Mosaic Girl

Boy, that looks seriously hard work, respect! How do you prepare all that lot then? Take it all up, what? And what about drainage and stuff? Wow...

The new slab is going to be put down in sections with expansion joints where I am going to want them in the tiles and with runs, there is going to be gravel border around the perimeter for drainage. Going to be a long while before the tiling starts but the prep is obviously going to be very important on this one. The problem is that from here on in it is all weather dependent, dont fancy tiling or using epoxy in the rain.

Thanks Rich for your really useful and informative post. Thanks for the pics as well, great job.

Originally Posted by spacer

Thanks Rich for your really useful and informative post. Thanks for the pics as well, great job.

No problem, Im glad it is of some help

Originally Posted by Rich

The new slab is going to be put down in sections with expansion joints where I am going to want them in the tiles and with runs, there is going to be gravel border around the perimeter for drainage. Going to be a long while before the tiling starts but the prep is obviously going to be very important on this one. The problem is that from here on in it is all weather dependent, dont fancy tiling or using epoxy in the rain.

Must be a headache to quote for that, the mind boggles, there are so many what if's!

Originally Posted by Mosaic Girl

Must be a headache to quote for that, the mind boggles, there are so many what if's!

Not really, these customers are brilliant (they even keep me stocked up with curly wurlys) and listen to what I say. They understand the work that needs to be done to get the finish that they want and they also understand that, like you say, there are a lot of things that might change as we go along that will reflect in the price. Its nice when you can work for people like that, its more like working with them rather than for them. If anything, I prefer to be part of the job from this stage so we can get the prep done how we want it.

Very good post Rich, its been a while since i have dropped in on the forum and as usual there are great hints and tips.


You have tempted me to try out epoxy as more and more of my customers express concerns with regards to grout discolouration etc.


I might knock up a couple of square meters of old tiles in my garden to practice on though.

Many Thanks and good luck with the external tiling.

Originally Posted by Gazebo

Very good post Rich, its been a while since i have dropped in on the forum and as usual there are great hints and tips.


You have tempted me to try out epoxy as more and more of my customers express concerns with regards to grout discolouration etc.


I might knock up a couple of square meters of old tiles in my garden to practice on though.

Many Thanks and good luck with the external tiling.

Give it a go mate, its not as terrifying as you might think, like I said earlier on, as long as you get prepared before you start you will be fine

Here is a like to one of Jay's posts of epoxy 15 years later


epoxy grout why !!!

Will Kerapoxy be suitable for a wet room guys?

the tech info says 3mm grout gaps upwards

my grout gaps for the walls and floor will be 2mm

is that ok?

thanks

oh and what is the coverage like?

ive just bought 10kg of jasmine kerapoxy... 6m2 on the floor and double that for the walls

buzzin fish

many thanks for the great advise