Lotsa posts about BAL being over priced - and yes they are expensive.

However - I have recently tried a few of their products that do not appear to have any equivalents with any other addy producers.

Variset XP - floor adhesive that you can adjust to set in 20 mins. and can get to set during recent sub zero temps. What price that? Yes that means tiling and grouting a floor in a day, even if it is -27 degrees outdoors?

Supercover - a 15kg bag of floor addy that covers over 6 sq m and costs less than you think.

And I am independant (BAL dont pay me for this!!) - I like Mapei, Norcross and Granfix addy too, but they dont appear to have the range of products that BAL do, and when I am looking to cut costs - completing a floor in a day makes me very competitive....

What do you folks think?

I think the main issue with bal is the price of their product, if they were more competitive they would do better

I was a Bal user for over 15 years.. Not no more.. my jobs cannot stand the cost of BAl adhesives.. You might say Variset-xp is this and that but IMO ok for small jobs but try costing that into say a 60 mtr floor..

Super cover grey.. ok they say it goes further, i have used it and yes it does but not 2 mtrs more per bag per kg IMHO.. but again weigh up the cost of it against another top brand which is quite a bit less in price then it doesn't make it worthwhile..

I and many tilers on here say it time and time again.. Bal is expensive and they know that but stick by the Bal is worth it spiel.. Well after many years as a Bal user i know plenty other makes that perform just as good and upto half the price..

So all i can say is , if you use what your are comfortable using then that is all that counts but good price.. then i have to disagree along with plenty others who now use alternative brands..

I actually had this conversation with a CTD employee today.. and i did say that Bal is a great product but imo they are not top dog anymore and they really do need to realise that.. and help their loyal users get their products at a reasonable price..

BAL I've sh well you know. Variset XP is a good product but as with anything BAL produces it is over priced and the only reason for the product flopping is this excessive price. when i went on tilers world and voiced my opinion about the price of Variset XP i was promptly band from the site. It is no surprise to me to find my local supplier selling Variset XP at a discount because it has been sitting on the shelf for nearly 12 months and is approaching its sell by date. I think i am one of two fixers to ever pay for Variset XP from this branch.
I can get spf adhesive from Mapei or Webber or even Ardex for half the price of BAL and if you want to use BAL Supercover on anything other than a screeded floor you will need an additive so that bumps up the price or you can get BAL Supercover flex at double the price of standard BAL Supercover.

Originally Posted by deanotile

I can get spf adhesive from Mapei or Webber or even Ardex for half the price of BAL and if you want to use BAL Supercover on anything other than a screeded floor you will need an additive so that bumps up the price or you can get BAL Supercover flex at double the price of standard BAL Supercover.

Of course Ardex own BAL. Wonder if there is any relationship between this acquisition and a growing discontent about the expense of BAL?

Keep your replies coming - I have been speaking to a guy with over 30 years tiling experience - he would not use anything but BAL (in spite of the exepnse) but I know on here there is a strong dislike for their pricing.

I know that in the domestic market I have to price competitively, and frankly I cannot if I use BAL products. But that does not mean I would not use them - I still prefer the flexibility of their range - just cannot justify their cost 90% of the time!!

i think bal variset is the biggest waste of shelf space i have ever seen, i can still remember the bal rep trying to sell it to me as the best thing since sliced bread, make your adhesive set in 20 mins, wow i can do that with a fan heater, or use hot water in the mix.

super cover, as dave said compare it to the price of other adhesive and it makes no difference.

i can get very good prices on there flexable p.t.b white and grey from my supplier and they are shifting pallet loads of the stuff, so if they lower there prices they would be back in the game

i still use there grouts all the time, i do find them easier to use.

I dont think its a dislike to them personally i just think people will shop with finances in mind especially in todays economy. Why would you by an adhesive that is more expensive than one that does the same job but is cheaper? To me its like the super diesel or super unleaded fuels they are just not necessary (except in extreme cases/cars)

I trained at BAL, used BAL as a tiler, then trained newbies with BAL, and loved to use BAL for a long time. I don't tile now, but if I did, unfortunately it wouldn't be BAL I'd be using and it is just down to price. I don't think I'd care for the XP or supercover (never had a problem with rapid or rapid flex, do we really need more?!).

If you're a trader at Topps you're buggered, you're probably not winning jobs due to your price of materials. Or the customers going direct and they get a TAF in and you make didly squat on the materials. Which made up a good 50% of my profit when I tiled. BAL users are lucky it's stocked in other stores that flog it cheaper.

I spoke to a guy that spoke to their head training bloke, and they said they're not interested in helping get established tilers through their NVQ due to the fact that if they're not already using BAL they probably wont convert over to BAL. So they only wanted new fresh tilers that didn't have a preference on adhesive brand so they could be drilled into with BAL BAL BAL.

I think even BAL Sales Reps think they're the only brand going sometimes.

I went on the Bal training courses, ive still got some nippers marked up building adhesive ltd, need sharpening now LOL

they were good courses and the bal backup was really good as long as you used their products, at the time bal enjoyed the reputation of being the best and worth paying for, thing is times have changed and bal is no longer considered the best and for that reason can no longer demand a premium price

I have to agree with the above. I used BAl for the first few years of tiling and certainly have nothing against the product, its the price. I dont think you will find anybody that has issues with the material itself as it is good stuff.

I also have been on the BAL training courses and thought they were really good and the service is great as well. However Im not really interested in all this, I want a range of adhesives, grouts, slcs, primers and silicones that work and that I can justifty paying for.

Like most of us on here, Iv been through all the brands over the years and have settled with Mapei because I think it is just as good as BAL (in fact I think it is better) and I think it is very well priced.

I'm not that impressed with Bal and they are the only company that I have had problems with their products.

Originally Posted by Stewart

I'm not that impressed with Bal and they are the only company that I have had problems with their products.

but they have this fantastic 25 year guaranty did they not sort you out?????

well i put a post up yesterday to say that Bal are the cheaper suppliers for a job in scotland, cheaper than ardex that i use a lot and cheaper than mapi but someone removed it!!but i dont know how you can say untill you buy for a big job but that is a fact

Do you go direct gooner?

Originally Posted by gooner59

well i put a post up yesterday to say that Bal are the cheaper suppliers for a job in scotland, cheaper than ardex that i use a lot and cheaper than mapi but someone removed it!!but i dont know how you can say untill you buy for a big job but that is a fact

Since you joined the BAL forum after your temporary suspension on here, you suddenly seem to have switched to BAl from your beloved X7 etc.. If you bought BAL cheap in scotland then IMO it was a supply issue or costing with other brands.. Weber from CTD will hammer any price on a good brand then Mapei come in second but this also depends upon supplier.. So to say BAL is cheaper is imo exaggeration unless this comment comes from your time spent on the BAL forum gonner59.?..

All these members above cannot be wrong can they.?.. You price up the same when you go back home and come back and tell us the same..>,, I doubt not..

im not sure DAN just saying what my mr's said , when she was shopping about !! ardex where three times the price mapi where £270 dearer and BAL where the cheapest perhaps they are trying to get more competitive!! we ended -up going with waxman's who did the ardex with a special price for us with a big discount for the mosaic as well and it finely made it cheaper but still a little bit dearer than BAL, but i was ok with this as it will all come together if that make's sense!!

DAVE you know that i have been on the BAL forum for a lot longer than when you TEMP banned me, , and as i have stated to them and now you i like to go on forums for the chat with tilers and other guys , i will see your products and there's but i will make -up my own mind if i want to try them , and ON -ONE will force me i understand that you and them are tring to sell/ push your sponsors ,and i accept this in return for going on the said forum you go on there forum as they come on there where is the prob !!

Gooner.. I never said it was a problem.. I just pointed out a fact ... and we all interact on other forums.. thanks for the reply.

Hey, you know we don't mind who's products are discussed here. It aint just about the sponsors and you know that.

Our sponsors have been chosen and they're all brilliant brands, you know that, but you're welcome to use whatever you please and discuss anything you want here no matter who's brand it is.

And I've always said if all tilers used all forums, we'd do quite well with being the one with the most content, which is the main reason for visiting one.

Originally Posted by gooner59

well i put a post up yesterday to say that Bal are the cheaper suppliers for a job in scotland, cheaper than ardex that i use a lot and cheaper than mapi but someone removed it!!but i dont know how you can say untill you buy for a big job but that is a fact

I used to get prices in from BAL, Mapei and PCI when I was pricing or had won large contracts Dave and you're right what you are saying When it comes to larger jobs BAL are always game to drop their prices - whether this is right or wrong, it is a fact.

This obviously begs the question - if they can drop the prices on large orders, why don't they do it for smaller ones?? Economies of scale

i asked at CTD for the full retail price on spf for all the brands they stock and if you have no discount and the adhesive is not on special offer then actually ardex is the cheapest by far.

whatever your buying, when you get to pallet quantities the price drops , if you buy bal by the pallet the price drops near to what your supplier pays, fair play to them for being sensible and fair

but once off the pallet quantities the price goes right up and thats the issue everyone has, if other addy manufacturers were asked to supply by the pallet their prices should drop too

Locally I am fortunate enough to have several tile suppliers to choose from, including Tile Flair, Topps and Tile Giant, as well as several independants.

Having shopped around these stores since the VAT rise (like you do) I have found that Weber adhesive is by far the cheapest in the Bristol area with Mapei and BAL prices coming in fairly close (pricing based on grey flexible rapid setting). My target price to stay competitive cannot be met by using either BAL or Mapei, although I prefer handling and using the addy mix from these 2 producers.

I have therefore decided to use Weber for straightforward cement based tiling, and only using the cheapest tubbed addy (i.e. greenstar or equivalent) on kitchen splashbacks. Otherwise I will use Mapei, and BAL grouts, specialist addys (when necessary) and their waterproofing compounds. SLC will probably be either Wickes or Buildbase cheapies - dependant on use.

I have gathered from all the posts read either here or elsewhere, that everyone has their fav, and I strongly suspect every tiler who wants to remain competitive during this recession will be working with the cheapest addy they can source whether they like it or not!

Interesting note on BAL training - their one day courses in conjunction with other manufacturers (e.g. Schluter) are excellent - and I rarely come away with less than £50 worth of freebies. Mind you they charge £30 now, but you do get that back in gifts/bribes/freebies.... along with bacon sarnies and coffee. I must now go and book myself onto one of Mapei's training days for 2011 (lol)!

I didnt know bal still did them, we used to get 3 days with free accomodation as well as tools

Originally Posted by gooner59

well i put a post up yesterday to say that Bal are the cheaper suppliers for a job in scotland, cheaper than ardex that i use a lot and cheaper than mapi but someone removed it!!but i dont know how you can say untill you buy for a big job but that is a fact

that was me

Originally Posted by mikethetile

I didnt know bal still did them, we used to get 3 days with free accomodation as well as tools

How long ago was that Mike, the free ones went ages ago.

Hey Andy, your right, we all need to be watching the pennies at the moment but It would still take a lot to get me to go with a brand just on price. However Weber are good, I used them for years and think the range and price is exellent. In fact im going to be using them again this week, it will be just like old times

One thing I would point out would be to use the same brand through out an installation. If you can help it dont use (eg.) Granfix SLC then Weber adhesive then Mapei grout. If something (anything) goes wrong on a job you will have no come back where as if you have used the same brand from start to finish (providing you have stuck to the specs) and something goes wrong with the addy/slc/grout you should be able to get it sorted.