Discuss Is there any easy way to fix these faults? in the Tile Adhesive, Grout and Substrate Preparation at TilersForums; Hi, I hope this is in the right place - I'm looking for some advice on how to hide/fix faults in some tiling I've just had done in my ensuite, ...
Hi, I hope this is in the right place - I'm looking for some advice on how to hide/fix faults in some tiling I've just had done in my ensuite, or whether I should call the tiler back and ask for him to fix them. I've never had tiling done before so I'm not sure how many niggles are acceptable before you should complain, and I'm wary of making waves and seeming foolish over things that would usually be considered acceptable (we saved up for a long time to get the room done and I'm a bit of a perfectionist anyway, so I'm aware this may be affecting my judgement!). So I thought the best thing would be to ask the opinion of other tilers before I do anything. The tiler has gone to Australia for three weeks anyway, so I can't do anything about it until then!
First off I'd like to say that we didn't go for a cheap odd-jobber, he's a professional tiler (got a van with pictures on and everyfink ) and we paid him £xx per sqm for our 20 sqm room, which was double what some of the others quoted. We chose him because his portfolio looked good, we knew people who'd used him in the past (although admittedly just small jobs like a kitchen splashback) and when he came to quote he was very quick to comment on all the things wrong with our old tiling (diy job by previous owner - dodgy cuts, wonky grout lines etc), so we thought he'd do a good job. The wall tiles are 40x30 ceramic (white gloss) and the floor tiles are 30x30 ceramic. He saw samples before we bought them and said they were good quality, and I also asked how they were when he was working with them and he said they'd been fine - no varying sizes etc - and he supplied the grout etc, so the problems shouldn't be due to the materials. The walls had been newly plasterboarded before he came and the floor had been levelled and sheeted with ply, so no problems there either. The whole room was done, floor to ceiling.
He finished a few days ago and my husband paid him before he left (cash - and he didn't get a receipt!) but apparently he couldn't get in the room to check anything because the joiner was in there working (translated as "I was too busy watching telly!"). It wasn't until I cleaned the tiles last night that I noticed the problems. There are loads of small things - some of the grout lines don't quite line up and vary in size a fair bit in places (on the floor especially - some are 5mm others are 9mm). In places there are dark bits of grit caught in the white grout which I won't be able to get out. There are also air bubbles/holes at various points, and the grout is already cracking around the plastic window trim he's used (which is not even the same shade of white as the tiles and it looks cheap), and some of the tiles he's cut into the window trim are chipped along the edges (they look like they've been nibbled on). He's also put a floor tile down the side of the toilet which has a small chip out of the corner (there were plenty of tiles left over so he could have replaced it), and his silicone is also pretty rough and wonky. But these are all small things that you probably wouldn't notice unless you were looking for them so I can live with them (although at £xx a sqm I don't feel like I should have to, to be honest!).
But the biggest problem, and the one I need a solution for, is that on a lot of the tiles you can see the orange edges of the tile. On some it's just in one or two spots (like in a corner), but on others it's the entire length of the tile. So between the white tile and white grout, there's an orange line that sticks out like a sore thumb. It's only about a mm or so - it looks like someone has drawn along the edge of the tiles in a felt-tip pen. To me it looks like the tile is sticking up further than it should or doesn't have enough grout. It's not even in one area, they're dotted about all over the place. Probably about 30% of the tiles have it to some degree. And sod's law, the worst ones are in really noticeable places like the shower cubical and above the door. As I said, I don't want to be one of 'those' customers and call him back over petty things like air bubbles etc, but I get the feeling that these orange lines are a result of him rushing the job because he was going away (he only finished the night before he was going), and they really are ruining the look of the room.
If I do get him back after his holiday, is this something that can be easily fixed, or will everything need to be regrouted? It's taken me days to clean up the mess he left the house in last week so I'm a bit wary of doing that, especially as all the fittings are now in. Is there some easy way I could cover up the edges that are showing (like some kind of touch-up pen) or would that just look worse? I'd really appreciate some knowledgeable advice.
Thanks
Last edited by doug boardley; 15-01-2011 at 12:12 PM.
Reason: no prices in public forum please
Hi there, welcome along to the forum. It doesn't sound like you are being picky at all, most of these problems sound like errors due to rushing as you said. Is there any chance you can post a few photos of the affected areas so that I and all the other forum members have a better idea of what we are dealing with, and can give you accurate advice and solutions. Thanks.
At £xx psm thats not good enough tbo. i can see why he's able to go the Oz for a holiday!! the dark bits in the grout will be the adhesive showing thro, Grout joints 5mm to 9mm. wonky grout lines the orange lines are the biscuit showing which means he prob washed too much grout out or didn't put enough in the first place. this'll need taking out and re-doing.
so the bottom line is you'll have to call him back, point out all the snags and get him to fix them.
Last edited by doug boardley; 15-01-2011 at 12:12 PM.
no your not being unreasonable , if grout lines are out and gaps varying then theres no solution other than remove and start again, the bisque showing on the edge of the tile can be resolved by regrouting , but regrouting wont resolve the the issue of uneven grout lines
I know others will want to see pics
what you do about this is largely up to you but you will have to await his return from down under and no your not being unreasonable
Get him back and you're not being unreasonable...... he's charged high end prices for fitting ceramics, so you should have a high end job which should be perfect.
Phew, thanks for the replies, I'm glad it's not just me being picky then! The varying grout lines and everything else I can see past, it's not really that noticeable unless you're staring at them, it's just these damn orange lines! It's taken us years to save up the money to get the room done and we're not planning to do it again, so that's why we paid him so much, thinking he'd do the best job. It just goes to show that spending more doesn't necessarily get you the best worker! I just can't understand why he would do such a bad job knowing that we had other work for him - he'd already quoted to tile our conservatory and kitchen floors, and my dad is needing his bathroom done too. Needless to say, I'll be finding someone else to do it now.
I'll take some photos later on and upload them, so you can see exactly what I'm talking about.
HOLY MOLY! This is starting to get me down, I cant get my head around how many times I hear about people getting away with bad work. I have quoted to put right 3 tilers jobs in the last 2 days! And none of these customers complained to the tiler!
£xx per M is a very high price, for that money you could have had stone instead of ceramics so his finish should be spot on and you should NEVER have to 'cover up' work carried out by some1 who has been paid.
There is no exuse for joints being that uneven and air bubbles in the grout mean that it is not water proof, this is a big deal and needs sorting.
Can I ask what adhesive he used to tile onto the ply floor and how thick the ply is?
I am concerned that if this 'tiler' is that uncaring that he will not have carried out the correct prep on the floor.
Also as above, pics would be a great help if you can
Last edited by doug boardley; 15-01-2011 at 12:13 PM.
HOLY MOLY! This is starting to get me down, I cant get my head around how many times I hear about people getting away with bad work. I have quoted to put right 3 tilers jobs in the last 2 days! And none of these customers complained to the tiler!
£xx per M is a very high price, for that money you could have had stone instead of ceramics so his finish should be spot on and you should NEVER have to 'cover up' work carried out by some1 who has been paid.
There is no exuse for joints being that uneven and air bubbles in the grout mean that it is not water proof, this is a big deal and needs sorting.
Can I ask what adhesive he used to tile onto the ply floor and how thick the ply is? I am concerned that if this 'tiler' is that uncaring that he will not have carried out the correct prep on the floor.
Also as above, pics would be a great help if you can
good point Rich.
Last edited by doug boardley; 15-01-2011 at 12:13 PM.
9mm grout line...was the guy drunk when he installed these?
sheesh.
Being that tiles are "set in stone" so to speak, there is no excuse for so many issues.
Especially considering that they are easy to eliminate before they are set in mortar and grouted.
I have spent a bit of time this past couple weeks clearing up other installers careless deficiencies and so am not as tolerant at the moment for shoddy work.
I've added a few photos to an album on here - they're not the best as unfortunately the camera on my phone isn't great, but they give you an idea of the general standard it's been done to. Actually, seeing it on the screen makes it even worse! Generally, as long as you don't look too closely, the room looks great. But I think that's mainly down to the fixtures and fittings than the workmanship!
I couldn't find instructions on how to resize the images (unless someone can point me in the right direction) but hopefully they'll work - if not I've made my album public:
Yeah, some really shoddy work there, no excuses for any of that. The grout joints aren't full enough thats why you can see the tile edge. The differing sizes of the joints are simply bad workmanship done by a tradesman with no eye for detail. The grouting can be rectified, the size of the joints can't without taking it all off and starting over.
The floor was already boarded when he came, our builders did that (I think they used 9mm ply but that's just from memory). I'm not sure what adhesive he used though, sorry (not even sure of the brand).
That really is poor work. If you have paid a pro that much the room should look amazing from every angle, not just from a distance.
He has washed the grout of before it has had a chance to dry, as Brian says above this can be sorted, he will need to cut out the grout and re grout over the top to fill the joints in.
9mm Ply is to thin for a floor, it should be min 18mm boil and water proof ply screwed down at a min of 300mm centres. Just be aware that if the grouting on the floor starts to crack, then you are going to start having problems with the floor and the tiler should have made sure that the floor was suitable before starting work.
well that is as bad as you described, if you can live with the uneven groutlines then a regrout will improve the look of it, silicone needs redoing too
I'm so glad I asked for the expert's opinion - I was starting to think it was just me being too much of a perfectionist! I'll get him back after the holiday and ask him what he plans to do to fix it. That'll ruin his holiday spirit! I just wish he hadn't been paid (or at least not in cash!), then he might be more keen to sort it out. I can understand why people don't complain and just pay someone else though, half of me thinks if he couldn't do it properly the first time I shouldn't bother wasting time with him again. But unfortunately every last penny of the bathroom budget has gone (and then some!) so that's not an option. Neither is retiling, as it would mean getting all the bathroom fixings taken out. Plus despite all the tiling problems the room does look great (especially considering what we used to have!) so I'd be gutted if I had to watch it all get ripped out again.
With regards to the floor, the ply definitely wasn't 18mm, I know that much. The builders just sheeted over the floorboards when they did the plasterboard and electrics etc to tidy the room up, and the tiler didn't change it. I've just checked and there are already hairline cracks in some of the grout lines. They're barely noticeable because it's sanded grout, but I'll keep an eye on them to see what happens between now and his return. The house is full of cracks anyway, there has been a a lot of movement in the houses in this area lately, so I didn't expect it to stay crack-free forever. But he only finished a few days ago!
The other thing is, reading around the forum, it seems the shower walls should have been tanked? Unfortunately he didn't mention this and I didn't know about it - he's just tiled straight onto the plasterboard that the builders used (normal, bog-standard 9mm plasterboard, not waterproof stuff or tile backer). I don't think he's used any kind of waterproof grout as it darkens when it gets wet - does this mean I'll need to use some kind of sealer to waterproof the joints? Can this even be done now? I have to say, this is turning into a bit of a nightmare! I can understand if I'd paid someone from the pub £100, but I didn't expect this from a "professional". Moral of the story: never trust a man just because of his pretty van
Ouuuuuch, NO TANKING???? The purpose of tanking is to stop water seeping through the wall to the floor below and to avoid nasty mould building up inside the wall - no grout is totally waterproof, with the exception of epoxy, but sealer does help a little to make the grout less able to soak both water and shower products up. It helps to keep the grout cleaner for longer, and it does have to be reapplied on a regular basis, once every year or two, depending on how often the shower is used and how damp the room is in general. I perhaps didn't read all yor post thoroughly, but did you have a shower there before or is it new and that's why the wall had never been tanked? Without tanking you have no way of stopping the water causing havoc ... I don't know if there is another solution to what I know of, rip it all out and start again ... what a nuisance for you, I do sympathise, you don't expect to have to nursemaid a treadesman through a job and ending up having to fix the mess! Maybe someone else here will be able to come up with something.... good luck...
Hi Mosaic Girl, there was a shower over the bath before and it was tiled with cheap 15cm square tiles on skimmed plaster. It's used twice every day (me and husband) but it was just a piddly electric shower, it could barely get us wet, never mind the walls! The walls were ripped out and new plasterboard put up, which the tiler has tiled straight on to. We now have a fairly powerful thermostatic mixer shower with an 8-inch rainfall head, and two sides of the enclosure is tiled - I think the bathroom will end up in the lounge at this rate! We do have an extractor fan above the shower and a big window which is always open a crack, so it's a well ventilated room thankfully.
If, when he returns, he starts saying that this is actually fine and meets british standards then the chances are that he hasn't a clue anyway!
You could say that you have (or will) payed an independant tiling assessor to carry out an assessment of the work and it has been found to be sub-standard.
Hopefully he will look at the grouting when he returns and agree he has rushed it and offer to redo it. Sometimes when people rush things they get a 'that'll do' attitude. British standards is 15mm for the ply btw not 18mm but that all depends on how much movement, if any, there was in the floor
Just to add to the great advice so far, it is not regulations to tank shower walls or even walls for a shower over a bath... BS5385 does say it is advised but deffo not regulations yet to do it..
not great pics aimee,hopefully he will re grout your entire room and sort out the wonky cuts etc and also re silicone it too to a good standard
its hard to say if its a full rip out job as we can only see the pics you have put up
in regards to the tanking its not law for him to have tanked the wall but it would have been advised
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Is there any easy way to fix these faults?
) and we paid him £xx per sqm for our 20 sqm room, which was double what some of the others quoted. We chose him because his portfolio looked good, we knew people who'd used him in the past (although admittedly just small jobs like a kitchen splashback) and when he came to quote he was very quick to comment on all the things wrong with our old tiling (diy job by previous owner - dodgy cuts, wonky grout lines etc), so we thought he'd do a good job. The wall tiles are 40x30 ceramic (white gloss) and the floor tiles are 30x30 ceramic. He saw samples before we bought them and said they were good quality, and I also asked how they were when he was working with them and he said they'd been fine - no varying sizes etc - and he supplied the grout etc, so the problems shouldn't be due to the materials. The walls had been newly plasterboarded before he came and the floor had been levelled and sheeted with ply, so no problems there either. The whole room was done, floor to ceiling.
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Grout joints 5mm to 9mm
Originally Posted by Dylante 
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