Customer (pensioner tight budget) wants tiles on top of existing ceramic tiles, whats the best primer/adhesive?

Thanks.

hack them off and make a proper job of it

its false economy , if the job fails then the money spent is wasted

welcome to tf

Thanks for that but he won't have it, already had that conversation.

if he won't let you do it right, then don't do it at all, simple really.

As above.........

Useful

it would be less useful if we gave unprofessional opinions.

you can tile on tile the best thing for you to do is nip into your local tile shop and takethe phone number of the buckets of adhesive for the tecnical helpline they will help and advise you.

Originally Posted by Brian the Tile

you can tile on tile the best thing for you to do is nip into your local tile shop and takethe phone number of the buckets of adhesive for the tecnical helpline they will help and advise you.

what about the added weight on the subsrate Brian. It will surely push it over safe load bearing.

how big is the area and whats the substrate please

What about Ardex D20 guys, this is touted as a tile on tile addy and has a built in primer !

there's plenty of addy's that will stick tile to tile, but the added weight on the substrate makes it bad practice imho.

in all my years tiling i have done this quite a lot[tile over tile] ,ther are alot of customers out there who can not afford to have the tiles taken off and walls re~plastered,times are hard enough at the moment[or is that only in wales],as isay if the old tiles are stuck solid thre will be no problem as the weight of the tiles is evenly distributed over the full walls not just in one spot.I myself would give it a guarantee never mind the adhesive companys,so as i say imo no probs.

Without knowing how well the existing tiles have been fixed, I think it is a gamble. A risk that I wouldn't take, sorry

Hi Brian,
I understand your argument, I lost out on a job recentley due to this situation, as the existing tiles were poorly fixed, I said remove and reboard etc...customer says to expensive! In a perfect world hey!!!

Originally Posted by Brian the Tile

in all my years tiling i have done this quite a lot[tile over tile] ,ther are alot of customers out there who can not afford to have the tiles taken off and walls re~plastered,times are hard enough at the moment[or is that only in wales],as isay if the old tiles are stuck solid thre will be no problem as the weight of the tiles is evenly distributed over the full walls not just in one spot.I myself would give it a guarantee never mind the adhesive companys,so as i say imo no probs.

in all my years tiling I've always stuck to the same principles of "never gamble" with unknown prior istallations, this principle has led to repeat work from customers plus the chain of countless recommendations. This stems from the principle of doing the job right without being hindered by cheapskate influences and "taking a gamble". The choice is yours.

I cant believe that anyone would risk their reputation anyway but to risk it now when we are heading for another recession is businesss suicide

no addy manufacturer will reccomend or guarantee that their addy will hold up in such circumstances , the only thing they can be sure of is that with correct prep their addy will fix to a ceramic surface and thats as far as they will go. they do not and will not concur tile on tile as theres no way that anyone can know the condition of the substrate the existing tiles are adhered too

there are too many people looking to cut costs and those same people will look for any excuse not to pay or to sue you if the job fails in the future. they wont take responsibility , they will blame you for going ahead with the job knowing its wrong and stitching them up

tile on tile is a mugs game, you are putting your name on the previous tilers work and if that was only just good enough then you could pay the price and damage your reputation

remember

if someones happy with you they will tell ten other people

if they are unhappy they will tell a hundred

do the maths. one bad job wipes out the last ten good ones

i take things one job at atime, I make sure that job is perfect then move onto the next, and so on

I wont risk my rep to save someone else a days money

id just add to the above post

if I really needed/wanted the job I would hack off and prepare foc before I would tile on tile

I agree with the advice provided by Doug and the Elite guys (they are given the tags for a reason), you cannot guarantee the existing installation so why risk your reputation.

You do not know what the existing substrate is. For example, if it is a plastered wall and the plaster has been there for many years there is a danger that it may have blown in one or two areas. Adding another layer of tiles could push it too far and you will have a nice mosaic pattern on the floor rather than a lovely tiled wall.

During this year I have been asked to tile over tile twice. In both instances, I discovered two layers of tiles when I removed them. If I had added a third layer I am sure I would have been liable for the clean up, repair of damage to bath etc, a plasterer, the cost of replacement tiles and my additional labour to rectify the job - no thanks!

If the customer will not see sense, then do your reputation and credibility a favour and walk away, it's not worth the risk IMO.

BTW, just to add that if you are thinking of using a tubbed adhesive you will have added issues. Tiles are a non porous substrate so dispersion adhesive will struggle to dry fully. If the new tile size is any larger than 200 x 250mm then, IMO, it will never become fully dry, so never reach a full bond strength.

If you are still willing to risk your reputation then I would advise that you thoroughly clean with sugar soap, remove the glaze from the existing tiles, prime with acrylic adhesive and use a flexible cement based adhesive. In the time it takes you to clean and de-glaze you will probably have the tiles off the walls anyway so, again, a no brainer from where I'm sat.

the problem is what is underneath the tiles. what adhesive was used? what is the sub straight? what was the method of fixing ie dot and dab?
i had a job and the chap wanted me to tile on tile so i suggested removing one tile to see what was there.it was already tile on tile and the first tiles was dot and dab and that was on to painted artex and that was on to crumbly old lath and plaster.

I to have done this in situations where budget/time is tight,I'm with Brian,if the first layer of tile is stuck down good enough,and the weights evenly distributed, then give er,I put a thin coat of SLC mostly to fill in the grout depressions,I've never in 27 yrs had a callback,but to CYA and be proffesional like Doug says and a practice that should be second nature to all tilers,before starting a job always check what's holding up the floor,for instance,if this fellows tile job is on ground level then support doesn't even enter the picture,cheer's,Boot's

How many times have I heard the customer tell me the tiles have been up for years, they aint going no where, they are not loose etc etc only to do as Deanotile says...remove one or 2 to check and the whole wall comes away.
The job is not as cheap as customer may want but the look on their face is priceless.

Originally Posted by Brian the Tile

in all my years tiling i have done this quite a lot[tile over tile] ,ther are alot of customers out there who can not afford to have the tiles taken off and walls re~plastered,times are hard enough at the moment[or is that only in wales],as isay if the old tiles are stuck solid thre will be no problem as the weight of the tiles is evenly distributed over the full walls not just in one spot.I myself would give it a guarantee never mind the adhesive companys,so as i say imo no probs.

In all your years tiling.. Maybe all these years you have done it wrong..??..

Just because an adhesive will stick a tile on tile, does that make it right..?

How can you guarantee that the first lot of tiles are well adhered..?? The safest method is to remove and i personally emphasise this with all my customers and as a professional trade then you should be as well, never mind in this climate we can't be choosy.. We have to do a job how it should be done and not how a DIY would do it.

Don't take this personally but it annoys me when long standing tilers have this attitude...

Another method I have used when the client is digging their heels in over the weight issue is to give them 2 boxes of tiles to hold, then inform them that the wall will need about 4 boxes etc. It usually works and gets the message over in a way even they can understand.

so maybe all theese year i may have been dooing it wrong???. Well i do take that tobe personal so look,when you have more experience andhave been doing the job half as long as i havethen i might listen to youbut until then dont try to tell your grandma how to suck eggs,you may have a lot of posts but that doesnt make you any better than the next man.Like i say i have a lot of experience,been doing the job along time and am also time seved,not a 2 week colledge course my friend,so you to dont take this to persnallyand remember your only as good as your last job.

brian,this is a forum so we can learn from each other,i have tiled on tile twice in the past but have learnt and changed my ways and wont be doing it again as imo its bad practice so yes it can be done but i wouldnt advise it

because you have been tiling for a long time does not automatically make you a better tiler

Originally Posted by Brian the Tile

so maybe all theese year i may have been dooing it wrong???. Yes well observed
Well i do take that tobe personal so look,when you have more experience andhave been doing the job half as long as i havethen i might listen to you But I have been doing it half as long and more but until then dont try to tell your grandma how to suck eggs,you may have a lot of posts but that doesnt make you any better than the next man.Like i say i have a lot of experience,been doing the job along time and am also time seved,And just because you are time served doesnt mean you are doing it right either not a 2 week colledge course my friend I am time served too and at least 2 week course try and teach proper preparation.,so you to dont take this to persnallyand remember your only as good as your last job.

Pure physics will tell you that all adhesive can only take so much weight. Even the adhesive manufacturers will tell you that. Tile may be stuck to tile but thats not the issue here.

Originally Posted by Brian the Tile

so maybe all theese year i may have been dooing it wrong???. Well i do take that tobe personal so look,when you have more experience andhave been doing the job half as long as i havethen i might listen to youbut until then dont try to tell your grandma how to suck eggs,you may have a lot of posts but that doesnt make you any better than the next man.Like i say i have a lot of experience,been doing the job along time and am also time seved,not a 2 week colledge course my friend,so you to dont take this to persnallyand remember your only as good as your last job.

I too have been in this game around 20 yrs brian... not a course tiler and not a tile on tile tiler.. you continue to tile on tile and we will continue to do it right..

I agree with the comment , you are only as good as your last job.. i do hope those over tiles stop on..

I too have been tiling for twenty years and in that time i have never tiled on top of tiles for all the reasons given, and if a customer can't afford to get the tiling and prep done properly then i advise them to wait until they can. Doesn't matter how good a tiler you are, if you don't prep the job properly then how can you guarantee the work. If you tile over tile you are depending on someone else's prep, which means, it's it down to pure luck if it doesn't fail. You would also have to check your insurance to make sure you are covered....... As not following the correct installation procedures will in no doubt invalidate this.......