Hi,

I'm planning on tiling the floor & wall of our en-suite with 12mm Cappuccino marble, not quite decided on the size yet, but could be as large as 610 x 406 x 12mm

3 walls are Knauf Aqua Panel tile backer board, fourth wall is concrete block.

The floor is tongue and groove wooden floor boards, over boarded with 9mm ply, screwed every 100mm, this has electric UFH (100w m2) on it and SLC to cover.

I have Dura CI membrane for the floor and Dura WP for the walls in the shower area, and a Tuff 2 tray, all from Wetdecs.

I read in another thread that Keraflex was recommended for tiling a wall with Cappuccino Marble, and it has a long pot life (I'm not a quick tiler), but on Mapei's data sheet they only recommend it for use with UFH with tiles up to 300 x 300mm.

What would you recommend for the floor?

I presume Keraflex will be ok for the walls, including the tanking membrane?

Would the floor/walls need priming?

Another question, would Cappuccino Marble be slippery in the shower area, or would it be better to use matching mosaics?

Hopefully I've included everything, getting rather sleepy now.

Ronski,
You should seriously think about that format size as in 12mm you could end up with it bowing, you need at least 15mm and even then you are risking it.

Pebbs

Hi Pebbs, thank you for your reply.

I don't think I've seen any thicker than 12mm in Cappuccino Marble have seen thinner though, would using a smaller tile be better? I have the following options:

1. 305 x 610 x 12
2. 406 x 610 x 12
3. 305 x 457 x 12

Not sure the wife would be happy with a smaller tile though....

Any other thoughts on this?

Edit: Would they been prone to bowing prior to laying, if I checked for bowed tiles prior to laying and discarded/used for cut tiles would that be OK?

I thought Cappuccino was 15mm thick..? .. Travertines tend to be 12mm and veined stone like marble is 15mm or above..

But there is quite a bit of Cappuccino at 12mm thick... Rapid setting adhesive will help stop moisture warping..

The minimum thickness for that format size should be 15mm it will bow otherwise.
Talking of bowing before they have even been set down, I was on site today and on one of the floors the client wants 1200x1200x20mm. Not only had someone overlooked the fact it wouldnt fit on the hoist, it eventually had to be craned in. This was on Friday, today low and behold, its already bowed.... The upside of this is, its not part of my contract, count yer blessings!

Pebbs

Originally Posted by Ronski

Hi,

I'm planning on tiling the floor & wall of our en-suite with 12mm Cappuccino marble, not quite decided on the size yet, but could be as large as 610 x 406 x 12mm

3 walls are Knauf Aqua Panel tile backer board, fourth wall is concrete block.

The floor is tongue and groove wooden floor boards, over boarded with 9mm ply, screwed every 100mm, this has electric UFH (100w m2) on it and SLC to cover.

I have Dura CI membrane for the floor and Dura WP for the walls in the shower area, and a Tuff 2 tray, all from Wetdecs.

I read in another thread that Keraflex was recommended for tiling a wall with Cappuccino Marble, and it has a long pot life (I'm not a quick tiler), but on Mapei's data sheet they only recommend it for use with UFH with tiles up to 300 x 300mm.

What would you recommend for the floor?

I presume Keraflex will be ok for the walls, including the tanking membrane?

Would the floor/walls need priming?

Another question, would Cappuccino Marble be slippery in the shower area, or would it be better to use matching mosaics?

Hopefully I've included everything, getting rather sleepy now.

I must have read this wrong, did you say 9mm ply on T&G?

Originally Posted by Phil Hobson

I must have read this wrong, did you say 9mm ply on T&G?

No you didn't read it wrong, it's 9mm ply on traditional tongue and grooved floorboards, not chip board. The floor it's self is very strong, 8" x 2" joist's spanning just 3 meters, spaced 400mm apart, with 21mm T&G floorboards (NOT chipboard) double screwed at each joist.

I followed advice on wetdecs website, increasing to 9mm ply, prior to his website being updated it stated:

Over Boarding Wood Floors For Tiles

Wood floors can be over boarded to strengthen in 2 ways:
Traditionally 18mm chipboard has had 12mm ply wood fixed to its surface. The ply wood sheets should be laid with staggered joints like brick work and be screwed at 150mm centres. 6mm ply can be used over traditional floorboards to give a working surface fixed as above
Wood floors. new screeds and heated screeds will move due to expansion and contraction, to avoid tiles cracking a stress membrane should be used especially under stone. Durabase CI membrane acts as both a stress and waterproof membrane for all floor types.

Thanks for your reply Dave, I'm a little confused, today you say that you think Cappuccino is 15mm thick.

Originally Posted by Dave

I thought Cappuccino was 15mm thick..? .. Travertines tend to be 12mm and veined stone like marble is 15mm or above..

But there is quite a bit of Cappuccino at 12mm thick... Rapid setting adhesive will help stop moisture warping..

But in December you tell Saffy it's 12mm thick, and no one mentioned to her that she should be using 15mm thick tiles?

Originally Posted by Dave

His saffy..

600x300 cappuccino tiles will be about 12mm thick...the hardi is perfect for what you have over the bath....but you need to weigh the tiles to see if they are over the 32kg limit for plasterboard..marble can be a heavy stone and the bigger the format the thicker they can get...300x300 are normally 10mm so check what you have and weigh 5 of them together and add 3.5 kilo's to the total for adhesive and grout and see what you get...or you can just weight one if our scales don't go that high and mulitply the result to get the weight per mtr.

Best to be safe than sorry...and deffo no tubbed adhesive.

The large majority of suppliers I can find on the net sell 12mm or even 10mm Cappuccino, I have found some with 15mm though. Perhaps you would be kind enough to suggest some suppliers you use?

None of my suppliers sell Cappuccino... the ones i have used have been small format( 300x300) and 12mm.. the larger formats tend to be 15mm.. should have been more clearer on my reply.


Stacked correctly and laid with right adhesive.. 12mm larger tiles will be ok IMO..

Cappuccino is quite a dense stone and some of the thinner ones have grit meshed backs.

Thanks Dave, what would be the best adhesive then please? Also could you say how long the pot life is?

Which is the correct way to stack them?

Whats the relevance/purpose of the grit meshed back.

Sorry for all the questions, but I'd rather get it right and learn.

The grit mesh back adds strength they say....

As for adhesive.. Keraquick is a good one and has a good pot life.. the spec says 30 mins but you get an hr or so easy and more if cooler than 20dgs..

stacking needs to be edge on and as vertical as possible.

Thanks Dave much appreciated, I think I could cope with 30 minutes to an hour pot life - I'm not quick by any means.

Would that be suitable for fixing down the Dura CI & WP membranes and would I need to prime any of the walls or the floor?

I have to disagree with Dave on this one, sorry but I think your asking for a bowing problem with this size on 12mm. Good luck with it though

Pebbs

Originally Posted by Pebbs

I have to disagree with Dave on this one, sorry but I think your asking for a bowing problem with this size on 12mm. Good luck with it though

Pebbs

Have you used the 600x400 Cappuccino and had probs..?..

Not all stones react in the same way.

No Dave I dont lay marble, I write technical specificiations for some of the biggest contractors and I would never in a month of Sundays specify that format size to be under 15mm. This is based on dimensional stability, and for example 15mm becomes unstable at 605x605 giving a m2 value of 0.366m2. The 12mm talked about gives a dim stability of 0.24m2 less a 3.75 ratio which puts it right on the border of dim stability.
I understand Ronski in wanting a larger format marble, but I am advising him prior to purchase what could happen. If he goes for a 15mm depth he is lessening the risk of bowing.

Pebbs

Thanks Pebbs, it nice to have an explanation rather than just saying you shouldn't use such and such, even if I don't have a clue about the maths etc.

What size would you consider stable at 12mm out of the ones I listed above?

Could you recommend any suppliers for 15mm tiles?

Would weight become a problem going to 15mm?

Ronski,
As your not far from where we are based, I'll ring around a couple of my suppliers tomorrow to see what they have in stock and PM you ok?

As for the weight factor, I think you are still in the 'safe zone' so to speak.

Pebbs

You dark horse Pebbs

I love this forum, you learn something every day

Originally Posted by Pebbs

No Dave I dont lay marble, I write technical specificiations for some of the biggest contractors and I would never in a month of Sundays specify that format size to be under 15mm. This is based on dimensional stability, and for example 15mm becomes unstable at 605x605 giving a m2 value of 0.366m2. The 12mm talked about gives a dim stability of 0.24m2 less a 3.75 ratio which puts it right on the border of dim stability.
I understand Ronski in wanting a larger format marble, but I am advising him prior to purchase what could happen. If he goes for a 15mm depth he is lessening the risk of bowing.

Pebbs

Like i said , different stones react in various ways..

I am not saying it won't happen to Cappuccino but nothing definite say's it will happen on a 600 x 400 tile.

Fixed correctly and with the right stone adhesive . IMO it will be ok.. but again i appreciate that the best option would be 15mm as i stated in my first post..

But the market does sell a lot of 12mm over suppliers of 15mm.. only seems to be Cappuccino that i have noticed does this.

Hi, thought I'd update this thread, I ended up getting 15mm in the end, the supplier I was going to use had no stock. When I looked around I found another supplier (stone superstore) that stocked 610 x 405 x 15mm, and I got 26m2 at £36.30 a meter, about £200 more than the other supplier but worth it I think.

Going to start tiling today, well laying the tanking first, bit nervous, but here goes.

Originally Posted by Ronski

Hi, thought I'd update this thread, I ended up getting 15mm in the end, the supplier I was going to use had no stock. When I looked around I found another supplier (stone superstore) that stocked 610 x 405 x 15mm, and I got 26m2 at £36.30 a meter, about £200 more than the other supplier but worth it I think.

Going to start tiling today, well laying the tanking first, bit nervous, but here goes.

Pictures please......we love em.

Will post some pictures as things proceed.

Just reading the instructions for Kerraquick and it states when mixed with Latex Plus Kerraquick becomes flexible enough to use on wooden substrates.

Can someone confirm that I should be adding latex plus to Kerraquick, my floor is:

1. T&G pine floor boords
2. Ply
3. SLC with heating wire
4. Durabase CI
5. Finally the tiles

Edit: Also would I need Latex in the adhesive for the stud walls, which have Knauf Aqual panel on?

Just been out to my local Tile Giant, Alan's very helpful there and he said that I don't need the Latex Plus as I'm not going straight onto floor boards.

Originally Posted by diamondtiling

Pictures please......we love em.

I posted some pictures in my main thread, I'll post more as I progress.

I would use Latex plus on any timber based floor