here's a question for you all...

I've removed a laminate floor at my house as it was always spreading at a certain joint and im sick of "jump & sliding" it back together. Dont tell me you dont know the jump and slide "move" cos i know you do!!

anyway, the reason it kept popping at that certain part was down to the gargantuan drop the bitchumen/ashphalt floor suffers at that point. I intended to self level and tile, but after ringing BAL technical this afternoon to find out the best primer (not PVA) to use on Bitchumen, only to be told they dont recommend doing anything with bitchumen other than removing it completely.

Removal is not an option as this was poured in and floated in when i bought the house (built circu 1927) to act as a damp proof barrier. Its not a thin layer originally used to fix vinyl tiles etc, im sure you will all know what i mean?

So whats my options here? I've been and bought BAL Bond but im at pains to just go ahead and use it without asking first. I intend to tile the floor in the end by the way.

I'd be tempted to put a 1:2 SBR /water down as a primer and then use a flexible slc

I'm still unsure here !
Ive stopped using pva on plywood overlays !
Should I be using Bal SBR diluted or Bal APD on face to be tiled ?
When the adhesive states to use a suitable primer ?

Cheers

I've used both for priming

I've not used bal primer, but I'm always prepared to use an sbr dilution of 1:3, (sbr: water), I do keep bottles of ultra, flex prime and Primer G in my van for when I use said addy's

Originally Posted by nhgfc

I've removed a laminate floor at my house as it was always spreading at a certain joint and im sick of "jump & sliding" it back together. Dont tell me you dont know the jump and slide "move" cos i know you do!!

I thought i had the copyright on that move!

Originally Posted by nhgfc

here's a question for you all...

I've removed a laminate floor at my house as it was always spreading at a certain joint and im sick of "jump & sliding" it back together. Dont tell me you dont know the jump and slide "move" cos i know you do!!

anyway, the reason it kept popping at that certain part was down to the gargantuan drop the bitchumen/ashphalt floor suffers at that point. I intended to self level and tile, but after ringing BAL technical this afternoon to find out the best primer (not PVA) to use on Bitchumen, only to be told they dont recommend doing anything with bitchumen other than removing it completely.

Removal is not an option as this was poured in and floated in when i bought the house (built circu 1927) to act as a damp proof barrier. Its not a thin layer originally used to fix vinyl tiles etc, im sure you will all know what i mean?

So whats my options here? I've been and bought BAL Bond but im at pains to just go ahead and use it without asking first. I intend to tile the floor in the end by the way.

PCI do a self adhesive bitumen faced membrane which is fleeced on the side you tile..perfect for sticking to bitchumen...

Blimey, i am the untrained but have used PVA at home and wont use again - i do have a litre of tilers primer unopened which i thought was just rebranded pva !!

Now I have a garage floor to sort out it has never been treated painted sealed primed PVA'd ect. and went out and bought a big tub of pva to put on to "seal?" it whilst i decide weather to use an epoxy type paint or standard garage floor paint - one manufacturer of the epoxy says not to pva and now i can see why ! ....but would Palace tilers primer (the 1l unopened bottle) be a suitable product to put down as a temp fix and then paint at a later date?

Sorry if painting is offtopic on a tiling forum

Originally Posted by Roscoepeko

Blimey, i am the untrained but have used PVA at home and wont use again - i do have a litre of tilers primer unopened which i thought was just rebranded pva !!

Now I have a garage floor to sort out it has never been treated painted sealed primed PVA'd ect. and went out and bought a big tub of pva to put on to "seal?" it whilst i decide weather to use an epoxy type paint or standard garage floor paint - one manufacturer of the epoxy says not to pva and now i can see why ! ....but would Palace tilers primer (the 1l unopened bottle) be a suitable product to put down as a temp fix and then paint at a later date?

Sorry if painting is offtopic on a tiling forum

Epoxy paint over PVA not really anything to do with the issues about PVA although your paint would still peel off. This is because epoxys depend on mechanical key and as such need to achieve a certain level of penetration into the substrate so that they can grab onto it. If you need to rpime the substrate you should use a penetrating epoxy primer. This will penetrate inot the surface and provide "grab" but as it has penetrated it will also have a contoured surface following the conours of the concrete thus providing a surface that the paint can mechanically bond to.

Great advise to me as a newcomer to tiling.
much better to spend a few quid more doing the job right, than getting a bad name later, costing time and money putting it right.

what about webber pr370 ? thats described as - a synthetic water based pva concentrate for sealing and primming building substrates. is it ok to use that prior to tiling then ? !! im confused !!! lol

My gosh - what an exhaustive read from start to finish! that was -
i can hardly get anyone over here to even use a primer/sealer let alone discuss which type is best! - but it would seem to an outsider that there is a bit of confusion in terminology going on & some untrained adhesive reps & others might some times unwittingly profligate the problem.

I believe we should seal a substrate which is thirsty so that the adhesive cures proberly or we should prime a substrate that is suspect or hard to stick to and if neither of these is the case don't bother - the adhesive is tested without and is more than capable of bonding to most common surfaces.

Primer G diluted 4-1 for sealing
Primer S water resistant primer
Mapeprim 2 part water based epoxy for problems

p.s. sometimes it isn't a matter of can we bond to a particular substrate - but should we -i.e. bitumen - chip board etc. we stick to them but they don't stay stuck to themselves and delaminate.

Hi,
So if you already have coated the rendering with PVA how do you get it off so you can apply primer? I never knew tiling was so complicated!
Thanks a lot Christine

What made you apply pva to render, did you thin it out or put it on neat

Originally Posted by whitebeam

What made you apply pva to render, did you thin it out or put it on neat

we used 4 parts water to 1 part unibond

Quite thin so may have soaked in, could (in the shower area) apply hot water and using a scrubbing brush on the surface and clean water to remove any residue

Originally Posted by whitebeam

Quite thin so may have soaked in, could (in the shower area) apply hot water and using a scrubbing brush on the surface and clean water to remove any residue

do we then prime it when dry? Do we just prime the other walls on top of the unibond or will that then be a case of the adhesive just sticking to the primer which is sticking to the unibond! Never knew tiling was so complicated perhaps someone should introduce an "idiots guide" for people like me!

How do we prepare the plywood floor ? thanks a lot

Should have no need to prime render unless it may be dusty, leave the other walls as the unibond you put on was quite thin.
i take it that the ply is already down, normally the ply would be primed uderneath where it sit on the floor boards and edges to stop any moisture ingress, check the information on the adhesive bag wether it needs priming or not on the surface your going to tile

I am tileing over old ceramic tiles,was told to unibond pva over old ones first,Wrong??????

Originally Posted by nealgrove

I am tileing over old ceramic tiles,was told to unibond pva over old ones first,Wrong??????

How did you apply the unibond ?

Hi
I have a recently plastered en-suite which has a 50/50 emulsion primer on it.
I want to tile the whole room and am going to use BAL Rapidset adhesive - do I still need to use a primer such as BAL primer??
Any help would be gratefully received.
Thanks

Originally Posted by nealgrove

I am tileing over old ceramic tiles,was told to unibond pva over old ones first,Wrong??????

yep! - just wash the old tiles down propery & use something that will bond direct to the. i like Mapei Kerabond plus/isolastic50 - been using & recomending it now for 15 years without 1 single problem - easy!

Originally Posted by Rainbow

Hi
I have a recently plastered en-suite which has a 50/50 emulsion primer on it.
I want to tile the whole room and am going to use BAL Rapidset adhesive - do I still need to use a primer such as BAL primer??
Any help would be gratefully received.
Thanks

yes Rainbow, especially if it's a gypsum type plaster

Originally Posted by doug boardley

yes Rainbow, especially if it's a gypsum type plaster

Hi Doug
No idea if it's Gypsum based but will Prime it with BAL anyway...
Thanks for the advice.

just new to this was gonna use pva thanks for the advice

I think it depends entirely on the surface you're sticking to and what you're sticking to it. There must be a reason that every single manufacturer says that PVA isn't suitable, I mean I'm sure they're not sitting round a table (In an evil lab) saying lets lie to all the tilers out there. They all say the same reasons as well, reactivates with water, sits on the surface, not strong enough.

I mean epoxy primer seems to sit on the surface but defo gives a strong enough bond, perhaps we should just believe all the people in the industry, tile manufacturers, adhesive manufacturers, tilers, chemists and except that tiling needs some specialist products.

You never know these chemists could devise products that allow tiling in every room of the house rather than just solid floors and walls.

your right in what you say penkhull

the problem is misinformation

i havent been into a diy shed to read the tubs of addy for a while so they may have changed it

but the instructions for unibond addy tell you to prime plaster with their pva product

tiling is traditionaly part of the plastering trade and city and guilds plasterers learnt tiling

and a lot of plasterers use pva as some kind of cure all magic potion

even advising their customers to seal the new plaster before painting ,which is correct

but when the customers asks what to use they say dilute some pva it will stick the paint to the wall

one job i looked at recently everything got confused and she mixed the pva through the paint

thats good advice, i just bought some pva for a job on monday where i ply the floor. I guess i need to get some primer instead. Whats the best priced primer out there? I'm new to the trade and so far only used Nicobond for everything.

For ply you want SBR..

thanks again Dave!