hi all,
I'm a plumber and i am getting quite a few bathroom jobs in at the moment where they want the whole job pricing for (obviously including tiling). We have been using my girlfriends cousin for a few of them, he is a tiler by trade been doing it over 25 years. All was going well until the last job where the customer had bought some porcelain tiles. Our tiler was on the job while we were away and we recieved a phone call from the customer going mad about the adhesive being in a tub and that the tile shop warned him about anyone turning up with a tub.
We went round promptly and offered to take the tiles of and used bagged stuff when our tiler returned and assured us it would be fine for the job and that the tiles would not fall off etc.....now the customer agreed to leave them on and we went from there...the tiling is a good job (which it has always been in the past). Can anyone fill me in about the differances with tubed adhesive and bagged? once its set is there any fundamental differences?
hope you can help thanks for your time!

Yes there is! Tubbed adhesive is "dispersion" adhesive which means it dries by evaporation. This evaporation is via the porosity of the background substrate, the tiles and to a lesser extent the grout joints. As porcelain tiles are pretty much non porous, you are relying on the susbstrate to allow the moisture out of the adhesive. This can be a problem certainly if the porcelain tiles are any bigger then 150x150mm

It is normal practice to use a cement based adhesive which cures by chemical reation instead of dispersion for procelain or large format tiles, and also it must be polymer modified.

You didn't say how big the tiles were or what substrate you tiled onto but in my opinion, you may be heading for problems.

...oh and welcome to the forums.

welcome to the forums...Ardex do a tubbed adhesive for porcelain tiles but only to a certain size im sure(cant remember the name of it though)

Well said Grumpy,
i seen a small toilet i tiles a few years ago,had only started tiling and tubbed gear was what i used(supplied by customer), next day as i started grouting i noticed loose tiles !!! so you can imagine what i think of tibbed, i ripped off as much as i could there and used bagged to replace, far superior. A good flexi adhesive will hold porcelain well.

ardex d30 its called

Originally Posted by brian c

ardex d30 its called

Correct Bri and can only be used on small format tiles and with a porous substrate.

cheers for the feed back guys,
So the difference is the drying process? when i returned to the property the next day i tryed a large number of the tiles to check that they had taken hold before they were grouted....they were all very ridgid. I obviously want to know in my mind that they are going to be secure, are porcelain tiles non porus and a plastered wall porus? would this aid the tiles grip to the wall and the ability for the adhesive to set?

You may well find problems appear over a period of time. The reason you need to use poly modified adhesive is to allow for thermal and moisture related movement of the tiles and substrate. As things settle down, you may well find the tiles de-bond as movement will have loosened things up.

Personally, I wouldn't be sleeping very easily. Sorry to be the bringer of potentially bad tiding.

The tiles might seem solid( set) but it will only be a picture frame of dried adhesive where the air has got in through the joint...it will not be dry towards the center...

Time will tell when you have any thermal or moisture expansion and this will test ther adhesive to see if it will hold...

This is your call but the wrong adhesive has been used..

snap..posted same time as russ.....

is it true that some porcelaine tiles are not porcelain on the rear?

Originally Posted by Dave

snap..posted same time as russ.....

...you taught me well Dave.....

i mean porus on the rear

Originally Posted by neil.mcc

is it true that some porcelaine tiles are not porcelain on the rear?

NO!! porcelain is porcelain...glazed or unglazed...

Originally Posted by neil.mcc

is it true that some porcelaine tiles are not porcelain on the rear?

Not that I know of. Porcelain is the manufacturing process...only difference in surface may be if they are glazed. Other peeps with more experience than me may correct me though if I am wrong.

ok, is this information regulations or recommendations? obviously i am pleased to be made aware of it for the future!! i will also make my tiler aware of the information ( although i do feel he should know this without me reasearching it). I'm in plumbing where there are loads of building regulations to adhear to, is this the case for tiling?

thanks again guys

Bs5385 sections 4 and 5......but are recommendations only but they are what tilers should work to...we have no regulations..

BS 5385 section 4 2009

Wall and floor tiling. Design and installation of ceramic and mosaic tiling in special conditions. Code of practice

BS 5385 section 5 2009

Wall and floor tiling. Design and installation of terazzo, natural stone and agglomerated stone tile and slab flooring. Code of practice

i will inform my tiler of your help and assess the job again
thanks alot for your help will definatly use the site again!

Adhesives like Ardex D30, Granfix Multifix can , as tubbed adhesive, stick porcelain tiles, but I wouldn't use it if the tiles are over 250 x 250. I now prefer Mapei maxi powder addy for porcelain, you just can't go wrong IMO.

Originally Posted by Fred

Adhesives like Ardex D30, Granfix Multifix can , as tubbed adhesive, stick porcelain tiles, but I wouldn't use it if the tiles are over 250 x 250. I now prefer Mapei maxi powder addy for porcelain, you just can't go wrong IMO.

Need to be careful with the substrate though Fred.

Originally Posted by grumpygrouter

Need to be careful with the substrate though Fred.

Very true Grumpy.