Hello Guys, please can you give me some advice. We have just had our bathroom tiled today by the council, it was part of the housing modernisations.
The bathroom has been tiled over some very recently plastered walls they were plastered (approx 4 weeks) ago.

Question
Should the newly plastered walls have been coated with some sort of PVA bonding before the tiles were put on??
Also the tiler tiled over some 1/2" thick ply board that was boxing all the pipes in, no PVA bonding was use on either the newly plastered walls or the boarding.
Question
Should the ply board have been coated with some sort of PVA bonding before the tiles were put on??

Up to now 6 tiles have fell off the plywood and 3 off the main wall, I know the tiler told me he was running short of tiling adhesive as he told me 15 minutes before he finished the job today. He came downstairs and told me he had finished the job and that he managed to scrape just enough adhesive out of the bucket to finish the job, I said to my Husband I bet there's not much adhesive on those last batch of tiles he's put on. I was right the 5 tiles that fell off the main wall were the last ones he put on, I checked the back off them and the wall for the supposed adhesive you would be lucky if there was enough on the back of one tile to cover half a slice of toast never mind a 12 inch tile.

I'm well peed off

Thank You

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First off he should use an acrylic primer not PVA.

However, if the tile is small enough to use tubbed adhesive, then priming is often not required. You mention 12" tiles, sounds rather large did you mean 6" tiles? If so, then no priming, no dot and dabbing just good old fashioned fixing is required. Tell the fixer to use a 6mm notched trowel and all will be well.

Just re-read your post.

Has he grouted yet?
If not, then he will need to re-fix before grouting. Tubbed addy will need 24hrs to set so he must use a cement based rapid set if he is to repair and grout in the same day.

Sorry I have just measured the tiles and they are 10x10
The jobs finished now, he did use a trowel. There are a lot of tiles that are loose now I have looked and more coming away from the ply board.

There going to need redoing IMO

No he has not grouted yet

The adhesive he used was Mapegrip d1

The tiles should have been fixed with a powdered adhesive and primed prior to fixing for that size tile, Not with pva I might add

Originally Posted by annette

No he has not grouted yet

Give him hell when he returns to grout.

You need to know what adhesive he used?
What trowel he used?
Did he prime the substrate first?

Hit him with a curved ball - Did he tank the bath and shower area? (we all know he didn't)

Then ask him why the tiles have come away? And what is he going to do to ensure that they don't come away again?

Did he "comb" the adhesive or dot and dab?

Just remember, that if he uses ready mixed adhesive, he can't grout for at least 24 hours.

I really need to know the facts, with the tiles been 10x10 should the new plastered walls and wood have been Primed?? I need to be armed with this information when we visit the council on Monday, we actually paid £300 for 6 meters of tiling, they were only going to do half the bathroom so we had to pay the rest, guess which bit of the bathrooms tiles are put on the worse, you guessed right the walls we had to pay extra for. Thank You all for helping me.

Annette

Believe me your tiles will be coming off in a very short time

Primer no, but the adhesive is only one step up from DIY stuff, which is c**p and not suitable for a bathroom.

Sounds like he hasn't applied the adhesive correctly and / or bedded the tiles properly. Probably covered too large an area with adhesive so it has skinned before he has got round to applying the tiles.

Just a thought, but sounds like a poor fixing job to me.

BTW, 6m2 should cost you a maximum of £150. If you're near me, I'll come and do it properly??

You need to know what adhesive he used? MAPEGRIP D1
What trowel he used? DONT KNOW A ONE WITH GROVES IN IT
Did he prime the substrate first? WHAT DO YOU MEAN

Hit him with a curved ball - Did he tank the bath and shower area? (we all know he didn't) NO HE DIDN'T

Then ask him why the tiles have come away? And what is he going to do to ensure that they don't come away again?

Did he "comb" the adhesive or dot and dab? HE COMBED THE BACK OF SOME TILES AND IN SOME PLACES HE JUST PUT A BIG AREA OF ADHESIVE ON THE WALL AND STARTED PUTTING THE TILES ON

Just remember, that if he uses ready mixed adhesive, he can't grout for at least 24 hours

Also look at the council spec, It may be they are responsible for the materials

Originally Posted by Captain Slow

Primer no, but the adhesive is only one step up from DIY stuff, which is c**p and not suitable for a bathroom.

Sounds like he hasn't applied the adhesive correctly and / or bedded the tiles properly. Probably covered too large an area with adhesive so it has skinned before he has got round to applying the tiles.

Just a thought, but sounds like a poor fixing job to me.

BTW, 6m2 should cost you a maximum of £150. If you're near me, I'll come and do it properly??

£300 was for the tiles as well as the work, I know it would have been a fair price if the work was done properly

Originally Posted by whitebeam

Also look at the council spec, It may be they are responsible for the materials

The tiler was a sub contractor working for the council.

The sub contractor surly must be responsible for materials, He priced it and should advised the council what was required

Originally Posted by annette

£300 was for the tiles as well as the work, I know it would have been a fair price if the work was done properly

The price doesn't sound too bad then. It sounds like poor quality fixing.
If the tiles are coming off, then it seems perfectly reasonable to question the quality and ability of the fixer.

Originally Posted by whitebeam

The sub contractor surly must be responsible for materials, He priced it and should advised the council what was required

I agree with you, I hope they will redo the bathroom properly and next time use some primer under the tiles.

Originally Posted by Captain Slow

The price doesn't sound too bad then. It sounds like poor quality fixing.
If the tiles are coming off, then it seems perfectly reasonable to question the quality and ability of the fixer.

He was only a young lad who did the work, he did say he had never done a full bathroom before and it took him 4 days to do it, the size of the room is about at a guess 14 meters or less

Stand your ground and please come back to the forum if you need any more advise

I've got to agree with Whitebeam, argue your case.
I'm not sure that you had a competent tiler in the first place, though.

Good luck..

I have just taken some pictures and will put them up here in a while

Oh my, cant believe he tried to tile over the rad brackets, surely you should get a council rep round to view this work and they should get their sub con shot or a similar fate for this appalling work.

get on to works manager/maintenance surveyor from your local council and tell him/her about your concerns and the probability of a complete tiling failure, if you have kids mention that you are afraid to stick them in the bath for fear of getting a tile dropping onto their heads!(this is a good ploy, possibility of injured kids is real bad publicity!)
I always prime walls and plywood with an acrylic primer, not pva!! Point out to the council manager that you ave sought advice on the forum and offer to show him the replies you got to your questions, but please do something because this is a potentially very dangerous situation.
Doug

Having veiwed your photos I am appaled and what some try and get away with. I'm sure as is everyone else that the tiles on the ply will fail sooner or later.
The council is the contractor, you need to deal with them direct.

In this situation I would do the following:-

Is there a site/project foreman? Speak to him.
Don't let them finish the job explain if required, to the subby that you have issues with the quality and standard of the work.
Contact the council and speak to the person in charge of the refurbishment. Follow this up with a letter and I would enclose copies of the photos and send recorded delivery.
I would also speak to the Health and Safety department within the council as this is cleary a safety issue. Again follow up with a letter.

Hopefully this will get results and if all else fails.....Rogue Traders !!

Seriously though I hope for your peace of mind this gets sorted.

omg just seen the pics, the poor lad was right out his depth,who gave him the job!? Do not let him do anything else that might disguise this mess!!

Hi Annette, you have a right to expect much better quality than that. Firstly Mapei D1 is not suitable to tile over plywood with, according to Mapei's Little Black Book. However, as it is an acrylic based adhesive, your "fixer"(?) was correct in that no priming was necessary. However, D1 wasn't a suitable choice in the first place for those tiles and substrates. it is just possible that the council supplied all the materials for the job as it may well have been procured as part of a large project procurement. My father has just gone through a similar process in his council house, though his end result is much better than yours.

Good luck with your complaint, keep us informed and ask any othet questions you feel necessary.

all new plaster and ply must be primed with adp1 first when dry then tiling should comence if using mapie or ( ball whitestar which is the best adhesive on the market ) should be left to dry for minimum of 24hrs before grouting should commence