Hi

I'm a novice (and female) and about to embark on my biggest diy challenge yet - laying porcelain ceramic floor tiles in my kitchen.

I have over the last couple of days taken up the shocking excuse for a laminate floor that was already down in my kitchen, torn up the horrific brown cord rubber-backed carpet that had been glued to the floor underneath, and I've now come across my next issue.

My house is only 5 years old, but underneath all the flooring I've removed, I've found a black plastic coating covering the concrete in the kitchen.

My first question is - is this normal?
And my second question is - how do I adhere ceramic floor tiles to the plastic coating?

Most adhesive suitable for concrete floors, I'm assuming, is designed to put straight onto the concrete and not on top of some plastic substance that has been sprayed over the top of the concrete.

Upon ringing the house builder (Barratt Homes) they have no idea what the black plastic coating is, claiming that it isn't something they would use. And they suggested I contact tiling experts for opinion, hence me being here.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Hard to say..sounds like bitumen..but why..?...no vinyl tiles laid and taken up.....can you post a pic for us to see.....?

silly question? Are you sure its not the foam backing from the carpet

porcelain ceramic tiles? what are they then?

Once the substrat issue has been solved then yeah, find out wether the tiles are Porcelain or Ceramic

Welcome to the forums GirlRacerRed

Is it some sort of frost/damp protection????

I think BDS is right,it sounds like a bitumen damp proof membrane,not commonly used these days, is it like hard treacle toffee GRR (girl racer red, not me growling!!)

Cheers all for thoughts and ideas. Somebody I spoke to at Barratt suggested it might be bitumen but confirmed it wasn't something they use anyway.

Having ripped up the vinyl floors tiles and vinyl cushion floor stuff in the downstairs loo and utility room, the same black plastic coating was under them too.

I can confirm that the black coating is not the rubber backing off the carpet. I spent all last night scraping the rubbing backing off the black stuff

Having just been to B&Q and taken a look at the adhesives they have in there, I think I could use adhesive that is designed to be used on vinyl, what does everybody else think?

I would'nt use any B&Q stuff personally, I would go to a trade shop and get there advise and adhesive

Just reading back through your posts. As you had vynyl tiles in the cloakroom did you also have vynyl tiles in the kitchen underneath the laminate and carpet? The black stuff does sound like bitumen but as the property is only 5 years old I would think this strange as that was used years ago. I would have thought that if you primed the floor and then applied a self levelling compound that this would give you a suitable surface to tile upon. I realise that using Self levelling may be out of your comfort zone but you might find someone locally to do it for you.

No, there was no vinyl tiles in the kitchen when I lifted the laminate and brown carpet. I will at some point in the near future lift the laminate in the dining room and lounge to see whether it's something that is all the way through the ground floor.

I've just been researching primer so that may be the next step and then self level as you suggest.

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts, ideas and suggestions, they've been most helpful.

Where in the country are you Girl Racer, there may be a tiler local to you that is prepared to come and give some pro advice?

if you give it a tap does it sound hollow GRR?

Give what a tap Doug? It's a bit early for me....

Captain Slow, I'm in North Staffordshire so if anybody knows of a good local expert, let me know.

I'm still very keen on doing the floor myself as I've spent my whole life letting other people do the diy for me, and I want to know that I've achieved something myself for a change

Hi Girl Racer, if it is bitumen residue, once you have scraped of as much as you can, you can skim over the top with a product called Ardex Feather Finish. As you only need a skim, it will dry quickly (within an hour or two) and be ready for tiling straight on to.

This of course assumes the floor is otherwise flat and ready for tiling apart from the bitumen residue already there.

You will need to use a cement based adhesive for floors tiling and ensure you have 100% coverage of the adhesive under the tiles.

Sorry if I've not made myself clear, but the bitumen stuff is all over the floor, like hardened treacle, right up to the edges of the room. I've not even had a go at scraping it up or seeing how thick it is.

Is it worth pulling it up before laying the tiles? I don't want to damage the concrete underneath or mess with the integrity of the floor by removing something that may have been put down for a reason. (I suspect the real reason it's down is to cover up whatever mess is on the concrete underneath.... it's a right proper friday house... the oven, hob and sink weren't actually fitted properly into their relevant places..)

I'm starting to wonder whether I'm out of my depth now and maybe I should just call in a local tiler...

You are probably right.

Tiling a wall would be a better place to start tiling. You can buy the adhesive in ready mixed tubs for a wall.

For the floor you really should apply the self levelling compound and this along with the adhesive needs to be mixed by your good self. This is such a bitch of a job that we all use mechanical mixers for the job.

Unlike most diy this cannot be fixed easily if it all goes wrong and that means lots of cost.

At the very least get someone in to give some advice.

Originally Posted by whitebeam

I would'nt use any B&Q stuff personally, I would go to a trade shop and get there advise and adhesive

I concour,conquare,concur agree

thanks everybody.

my concern now is whether the self levelling compound will actually bond to the bitumen.

oh well. looks like I need an expert then.

if you give the treacle a tap with a small hammer in various places,does it sound hollow, don't mean to repeat myself GRR, but I've come across lots of bitumen floors that haven't bonded to the substrate properly,if this is the case, I wouldn't tile on it with/without a slc!!

oh i see. i shall give it a tap and see what happens.

if it's not bonded to the substrate properly, what do you suggest? would it be a case of pulling it all up before tiling?

if it's hollow and you're wanting to tile it get a surveyor or building control out first to get an opinion on its function imo, there's a chance it could also be a radon barrier

radon barrier - hadn't thought of that..

hmmmm, i'm beginning to think my entire tiling plan is doomed.

think i might just get a tile-look laminate and let my husband loose with his bench saw.....

I'm not saying it is, was just wondering why? bitumen/asphalt in a relatively new house

I think this could just simply be a bitumen type adhesive used to stick the vinyl tiles down with..?...simply scrape off any loose and wash the floor with a suitable detergent..( soapy water)....then either level with a latex leveller if needed or tile with a flexi adhesive if flat enough as it is...

Originally Posted by Dave

I think this could just simply be a bitumen type adhesive used to stick the vinyl tiles down with..?...simply scrape off any loose and wash the floor with a suitable detergent..( soapy water)....then either level with a latex leveller if needed or tile with a flexi adhesive if flat enough as it is...

yep! certainly wasn't trying to panic you GRR, just trying to think outside the box and cover all bases

well, having just been to see friends of mine who used to live on the estate where i've moved to, i asked them if they knew what the black stuff was. thankfully, they had their house built from scratch and spent 6 months watching it get built. having spoken to my friend, they seem to think that the black stuff was laid in their house and then the vinyl floor covering was laid over the top.

it looks fairly flat to be honest, but will have a good look tomorrow when i've taken all the stuff out of there again, and look properly in the daylight.

does anybody have any recommendations regarding flexi adhesive?

thanks!

i will not be beaten!

Originally Posted by GirlRacerRed

well, having just been to see friends of mine who used to live on the estate where i've moved to, i asked them if they knew what the black stuff was. thankfully, they had their house built from scratch and spent 6 months watching it get built. having spoken to my friend, they seem to think that the black stuff was laid in their house and then the vinyl floor covering was laid over the top.

it looks fairly flat to be honest, but will have a good look tomorrow when i've taken all the stuff out of there again, and look properly in the daylight.

does anybody have any recommendations regarding flexi adhesive?

thanks!

i will not be beaten!

Hi, Girl Racer Red, welcome to the forum.

You know, being an extremly independent and hands on sort of girl as well and understanding where you are coming from, I think in this case you have too many potentials for error here, it must drive some of the pros on here mad! Why not compromise? Get some help and ask if you can watch and learn, and as someone else said on here, start on a safer tiling project. Or even going on a tiling course, might be cheaper in the long run than mess this up and you'd have more knowledge to fall back on for your next project...and then be really proud of result.

Just instinctively your post worries me... but whatever you decide, good luck, just thought I'd let you know...

thanks mosaic girl for your input. i do agree that this sounds like a complicated job but with 3 weeks left until Christmas, i think i'm going to struggle to find a pro who can come in and tile my floor before the holidays.

but if anybody knows of a pro tiler in the stoke on trent area that can come in and tile my kitchen floor within the next 3 weeks, then please get in touch!

Originally Posted by GirlRacerRed

thanks mosaic girl for your input. i do agree that this sounds like a complicated job but with 3 weeks left until Christmas, i think i'm going to struggle to find a pro who can come in and tile my floor before the holidays.

but if anybody knows of a pro tiler in the stoke on trent area that can come in and tile my kitchen floor within the next 3 weeks, then please get in touch!

Start a new thread, GRR, saying tiler required in SoT, ..someone should reply...