Hi guys, going to be putting the Ditra Matting down for the first time next week and was wondering what to stick it down with. I've seen the Ardex AF200, but wasn't sure whether to get some ordered or whether i could use the Ultra Rapidset i'm going to be laying the tiles with to lay the matting?

You should use adhesive suitable for the substrate Mr Strutter. The ardex stuff I think you will find is particular to timber floors.

The floor is that orrible green chipboard stuff, feels very solid though, however the customer does NOT want a large lip in the doorway so ply is a no no.

why ditra..?.. it is not a substitute for ply you know....

If the floor is solid, why don't you use 6mm hardie? Slightly less fiddly than Ditra in my opinion.

Why do you find it fiddly russ..?..

I've got 2 x 2m shower rooms to do Dave, and the customer is not keen on ply because of the lip created by it and the tile. I thought that the Ditra would prevent both water penetration and any movement cracking my joints, and leave them with an acceptable lip to carpet to.

Originally Posted by Dave

Why do you find it fiddly russ..?..

Cos I've only used it once and I spent quite a while trying to ensure that the dovetails were filled with addy. I found it kept rolling out so I had to go back over in different directions to get it as full as possible. Apart from that, it was easy. it looks straight forward when you see the videos, but that part caused me a little concern.

Originally Posted by Mike Strutter

I've got 2 x 2m shower rooms to do Dave, and the customer is not keen on ply because of the lip created by it and the tile. I thought that the Ditra would prevent both water penetration and any movement cracking my joints, and leave them with an acceptable lip to carpet to.

For 2x2 bang the tiles down with Fastfex.

No probs.....but i would over board first with 6mm ply( if the chipboard is solid ) then stick the ditra down( 2 part adhesive ) and seal the joints to create a water proof floor.....then tile on top with normal flexi......but the floor must be solid to start with....hardi will give you a water resistant floor but not water proof.....

I recently laid travertine down on a T&G Chipboard floor, i was advised by a local tile firm to seal the boards first and then mix 50/50 water and Ultra flexi prime and use that to mix up the addy and away i go. Would that be the same idea Grumpy?

I would use Ditra with ardex AF200 or Evostick or similar onto chipboard provided the floor is solid. After all you are sticking a fleece to wood!

Kev

Originally Posted by TilingLogistics

I would use Ditra with ardex AF200 or Evostick or similar onto chipboard provided the floor is solid. After all you are sticking a fleece to wood!

Kev

Iv'e never really been a fan of tiling/sticking directly to chipboard.....do you think either of those will work well on chipboard kev..?...

Originally Posted by Mike Strutter

I recently laid travertine down on a T&G Chipboard floor, i was advised by a local tile firm to seal the boards first and then mix 50/50 water and Ultra flexi prime and use that to mix up the addy and away i go. Would that be the same idea Grumpy?

No mate, fastflex is BAL's ultra flexy stuff for wooden floors. It doesn't set hard as such, more like a really really dense sponge.

If the floor was proper solid, I personally, and you didn't want a lip, would use Ardex-flex 7001 after priming the floor with Ardex P51. You will use less than a bag for that area. Cheaper than fastflex too.

However, if you are looking for waterproofing as well, ditra will be fine, again as long as the floor is solid.

Ok Grumpy, thanks very much, i'll see what my supplier has got in stock, i'm doing the job Tuesday, and i'll take it from there.

Originally Posted by Dave

Iv'e never really been a fan of tiling/sticking directly to chipboard.....do you think either of those will work well on chipboard kev..?...

ardex AF200 is a general purpose carpet adhesive similar to the old Bal F3 adhesive and will do the job, dont get any on your arms or say good bye to the hairs its a sticky adhesive that never really sets just goes like rubber

http://www.ardex.co.uk/pdfs/ARDEX%20AF%20200.pdf

ive used used it lots, its Expensive but works

Originally Posted by Mike Strutter

Ok Grumpy, thanks very much, i'll see what my supplier has got in stock, i'm doing the job Tuesday, and i'll take it from there.

Im not sure where your based mike, but pentagon tiles in crowborough stock ardex materials.

Originally Posted by grumpygrouter

Cos I've only used it once and I spent quite a while trying to ensure that the dovetails were filled with addy. I found it kept rolling out so I had to go back over in different directions to get it as full as possible. Apart from that, it was easy. it looks straight forward when you see the videos, but that part caused me a little concern.

The problem with Ditra is the Dovetails as you have said takes time and adhesive.


Durabase CI has no dovetails it has a mesh surface is the same specification should fly down for you.

Showed and got a lot of interest at the T&S show, price is good tooo

tiler

..

Originally Posted by wetdec

The problem with Ditra is the Dovetails as you have said takes time and adhesive.


Durabase CI has no dovetails it has a mesh surface is the same specification should fly down for you.

Showed and got a lot of interest at the T&S show, price is good tooo

tiler

..

Once I have used my supply of Ditra Tony, I will get some from you and give it a try.

Originally Posted by Dave

Iv'e never really been a fan of tiling/sticking directly to chipboard.....do you think either of those will work well on chipboard kev..?...

Sorry dave didn't see this till now but yes they do work although if you can pick up a reasonable priced SPF that works as well. (Someone told me that in the beginning with Ditra Schluter reccommended Blue Star I think to fix it). They still to this day insist you don't need to use modified adhesive once its fixed down because the membrane will take care of the movement.

Kev

Originally Posted by TilingLogistics

Sorry dave didn't see this till now but yes they do work although if you can pick up a reasonable priced SPF that works as well. (Someone told me that in the beginning with Ditra Schluter reccommended Blue Star I think to fix it). They still to this day insist you don't need to use modified adhesive once its fixed down because the membrane will take care of the movement.

Kev

Morning kev...

That quote is from schluter.com...for some reason schluter.com say un-modified adhesive is fine to tile with porcelain etc to Ditra....I wasn't happy with this because we have different scenarios to tile to than the USA does....

So i contacted schluter.Uk and got a reply from steve dennis one of there senior managers....and we can use any modified adhesive if tiling with porcelain etc.....here is his reply....( i did post this a while back but i will again for newer members)....


Dear David

Thank you for your recent enquiry regarding the use of Schlüter®-DITRA and it’s compatibility with cementitious adhesives.

Whilst the Installation Guide found on our American sister companies web site is generally generic, it must be observed that it is written for the North American market, therefore it quotes ASTM standards, which do vary greatly from the ones we use in Europe. In North America they use different parameters to classify adhesives, based on formulation and polymer types, also they need to take account of the various environmental conditions (temperature and humidity), throughout the continent. We recommend that all information for the UK is obtained via our own web site www.schluter.co.uk .

In Europe we use BS EN 12004 for adhesive classification, which we use ourselves in the UK. Cement based adhesives suitable for Schlüter®-DITRA are normally classified C1 or C2 adhesives based on the tile being used.

The use of BAL products with Porcelbond has been used with Schlüter®-DITRA for many years, which are generally classified as CT2 adhesives, we will generally advise that when using a highly vitrified tile a Single Part Flexible type of adhesive is used with Schlüter®-DITRA, depending on application.

If in doubt our Technical Department is only a phone call way.

Yours sincerely


Steve Dennis
Senior Business Development Manager

Dave,

Actually they quoted this info when I did the Schluter 1 Day course at Schluter UK. The biggest bone of contention at the time seemed to be could you go straight onto floorboards with Ditra without plying first. I rang Schluter Germany explained and they said yes as long as the boards were fixed properly and were rigid so in other words this meant fixed to BS and screwed at at least 300mm centres. Schluter UK however said in a later communication it should be plyed first. I have laid quite a lot of tiles straight onto boards and never had any comeback. I used the cheapest contact adhesive I could find out of my local Selco to fix the Ditra and always used SPF to fix. This does not mean I won't get any comeback because I only used Ditra for the first time in Dec 05 but time will tell eh!

Kev

It wasn't the sticking down of the Ditra that concerned me kev..it was just tiling onto it with porcelain/vitrified tiles and using normal setting adhesive and not poly-modified to get a good bond......but at least steve dennis sorted it out and clarified the situation......

I know one tiler of 30 years and he uses ditra on all his floor board jobs

Originally Posted by whitebeam

I know one tiler of 30 years and he uses ditra on all his floor board jobs

As long as the floor is solid then yes no probs..great product....and durabase as well will do the same job.....contact wetdecs for a free sample and compare the two....you will be impressed....

I intend to try durabase on the next job family or personal job. I saw it at the KBB and was well impressed and the fact that it was a lot cheaper than Ditra was a big factor

Kev