Grout Problems

[tommyg]

I have recently tiled my bathroom floor. I have problems around a couple of the tiles where the grout have broken away. I have noticed that a couple of the tiles are springy, they are fixed solid but i feel my subfloor may have caused this problem.

I have been told a few ways of solving this problem but could do with some expert advice.

I have been told that i need to take up the tiles, check the subfloor and re-lay. I have tried re-grouting the tiles but it has happend again. I have been told that the best way to solve this and as a shortcut to having to lift and relay tiles would be to mix some rapid set adhesive up into a slurry and pour it into the joints where the tiles move, this will hold the tiles firmly in place. Is this correct or a load of tosh??

I look forward to some help please.

Thanks

Tom

take it up and start again !!!

this time making sure the sub/floor is solid as a rock

if you used ply how thick was it ? screwed every 150 mm ??

[grumpygrouter]

Never heard of the "slurry" trick, but I have only been in the trade a year.

If you have a springy floor, you don't have much choice but to rip up and start again. Eventually the rest of the tiling will loosen and you will have to do it anyway.

Always ensure you have an absolutley solid surface to tile on to. Good luck.

[sWe]

Originally Posted by tommyg

I have been told that the best way to solve this and as a shortcut to having to lift and relay tiles would be to mix some rapid set adhesive up into a slurry and pour it into the joints where the tiles move, this will hold the tiles firmly in place. Is this correct or a load of tosh??

It's a load of sheit, that's for sure

Pouring a slurry of ADHESIVE into the joints? Who's the cowboy who told you that? Make sure to give him a complimentary knuckle sandwhich next time you see him. Mix a bucket of rapid set into a slurry and pour it over him while you're at it, will ya?

First of, if you mix adhesive (or grout) with too much water, you dilute it's properties. Use materials the way they're supposed so be used, where they're supposed to be used.

Second, if the subfloor is too weak, no additional grout or adhesive is going to help. Rip everything up, reinforce the floor (with additional joists if needed), and start over again. No way around it.

Good luck.

[sWe]

Originally Posted by grumpygrouter

Never heard of the "slurry" trick, but I have only been in the trade a year.

The slurry "trick" is asking for trouble. I've seen make believe professionals abuse adhesive and grout in all manner of ways, including this one. Apart from looking like ****, it doesn't work. It also voids the manufacturer guarantee.

I'm seriously p****d off that someone would suggest this. It goes against common sense; it's not what the material's designed for, and even if it did work, it's a dirty shortcut.

[tommyg]

Thanks for all you advice guys. One major problem i have is that my wc and bath is fixed to the tiles which makes it hard to take up the whole floor. Will it be ok to juts take up the few tiles that are effected?

[MICK the Tiler]

I'm going to go against the grain about adhesive and grout injection, It does exist and works in much the same way as it does when fixing windscreeen cracks in vehicles. It uses vacum pressure to force addy or grout through the cleaned out joint and under the tile, it requires specialist knowledge and equipment to preform the task correctly, and it would not be advisable for DIY's to have a go at.

If the sub-floor is springy then injecting under the tile will be pointless as it won't remove the movement and the grout will once again crack.

The only course of action is to remove and replace and fixing the sub-floor before re-installation of the tiles. This would also mean removing all sanitry ware as well.

[sWe]

Originally Posted by MICK the Tiler

If the sub-floor is springy then injecting under the tile will be pointless as it won't remove the movement and the grout will once again crack.

The only course of action is to remove and replace and fixing the sub-floor before re-installation of the tiles. This would also mean removing all sanitry ware as well.

Aye, my opinion exactly.

Originally Posted by MICK the Tiler

I'm going to go against the grain about adhesive and grout injection, It does exist and works in much the same way as it does when fixing windscreeen cracks in vehicles. It uses vacum pressure to force addy or grout through the cleaned out joint and under the tile, it requires specialist knowledge and equipment to preform the task correctly, and it would not be advisable for DIY's to have a go at.

I'm aware that there are several techniques for grout and adhesive injection, but they also require materials designed for the task; you can't just slurry up some regular adhesive or grout. That's what I'm opposed to; using materials in ways they're not designed to be used, [especially] in situations where they are either pointless, or more likely to do harm than good.

When I fix tiles with the old sand/concrete/cement technique, a fixing method which tends to leave gaps/air holes in the adhesive, I use a grouting technique which could be called "capillary injection".
I use grout which is designed to be mixed to a very watery consistency; not regular grout. I pour the stuff over the floor and use a rubber rake to spread it. The grout is "sucked" in, down under the tiles, through capillary action, filling any gaps in the adhesive coverage.
It's really useful on floors with large tiles, and floors with heavy traffic. But it's especially useful outdoors, as it prevents ingression of water which might 'splode if the temperature drops or raises too much.

Almost everything has a proper time and a proper place.
A slurry of rapid set adhesive in the grout lines on a flexing floor is not proper procedure as far as I'm concerned.

[MICK the Tiler]

Originally Posted by sWe

Aye, my opinion exactly.



I'm aware that there are several techniques for grout and adhesive injection, but they also require materials designed for the task; you can't just slurry up some regular adhesive or grout. That's what I'm opposed to; using materials in ways they're not designed to be used, [especially] in situations where they are either pointless, or more likely to do harm than good.

When I fix tiles with the old sand/concrete/cement technique, a fixing method which tends to leave gaps/air holes in the adhesive, I use a grouting technique which could be called "capillary injection".
I use grout which is designed to be mixed to a very watery consistency; not regular grout. I pour the stuff over the floor and use a rubber rake to spread it. The grout is "sucked" in, down under the tiles, through capillary action, filling any gaps in the adhesive coverage.
It's really useful on floors with large tiles, and floors with heavy traffic. But it's especially useful outdoors, as it prevents ingression of water which might 'splode if the temperature drops or raises too much.

Almost everything has a proper time and a proper place.
A slurry of rapid set adhesive in the grout lines on a flexing floor is not proper procedure as far as I'm concerned.

EXACTLY!!!!! sWe and as usual conversed in a fer better way than myself.