Cracking Floor Grout !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[shamrock72]

the pva i use is ardion 90.. expensive but very good never had any problems...

[MICK the Tiler]

Remember though ardion 90 is only an admix for cement based adhesives only not an admix for grouts.

And it must not be used as a primer.

[grumpygrouter]

Originally Posted by shamrock72

the pva i use is ardion 90.. expensive but very good never had any problems...

is it definatley PVA? Would have thought it might have been an acrylic admix. I use the E101 with ardex grouts and I am pretty sure that it is acrylic and not PVA.

Grumpy

[Daywalker]

Originally Posted by TilingLogistics

What tiles were they and what size?

Kev

Hi Kev the tiles were porcelien ones 300 x 300.
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Originally Posted by groutpad

Did you put PVA in the grout mix. You don't need a lot but it does help.

Hiu grout pad, you dont need any mix with this granfix grout its fully flexible, cheers.
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Hi Mick the tiles were left over night to set on full fleximate adhesive, cheers.
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Hi all thanks for your feed back on this i'm thinking may be the grout was to wet but at the time had a good paste like consistancy for a powder mix.
I mixed three separate mixes as you have a short working time 30-40 min upon conditions and the whole floor is the same ( 10 sq m ).
I,ve used Bal floor grout with admix etc no probs.
Like i,ve said before you do not add any P V A or ADMIX with this flexi floor grout
so not looking forward to redoing the floor but what the hell its gotta be done
see what the rep has to say about it.

Will let you know of the out come fo this. Mark.

[MICK the Tiler]

Originally Posted by grumpygrouter

is it definatley PVA? Would have thought it might have been an acrylic admix. I use the E101 with ardex grouts and I am pretty sure that it is acrylic and not PVA.

Grumpy

Hi Grumpy,

Nothing in the tech sheet suggests it is a PVA (Polyvinyl Acetate) or isn't for that matter, but I doubt it would be a true PVA maybe a derivitive of it as a true PVA would not be a good partner to a cementuous adhesive due to the fact that it will break down in the presence of alkaline salts to form acetic acid, not something you'd want under your ceramics or stone.

As a test maybe I should try and build a coffee table, glueing it together with Ardion 90. Not sure how that would turn out.

[grumpygrouter]

Originally Posted by MICK the Tiler

Hi Grumpy,

Nothing in the tech sheet suggests it is a PVA (Polyvinyl Acetate) or isn't for that matter, but I doubt it would be a true PVA maybe a derivitive of it as a true PVA would not be a good partner to a cementuous adhesive due to the fact that it will break down in the presence of alkaline salts to form acetic acid, not something you'd want under your ceramics or stone.

As a test maybe I should try and build a coffee table, glueing it together with Ardion 90. Not sure how that would turn out.

LOL!

Grumpy

[Dave]

Another option as to why it could have happened is with this being a timber floor once grouted no one should walk on the floor for at least 12 hrs . this gives the grout time to dry and form a solid key the tile edges...walking on a timber floor could result in slight movement and cause cracking....just a thought......always let it set before letting anyone walk on it........

[Daywalker]

Originally Posted by Dave

Another option as to why it could have happened is with this being a timber floor once grouted no one should walk on the floor for at least 12 hrs . this gives the grout time to dry and form a solid key the tile edges...walking on a timber floor could result in slight movement and cause cracking....just a thought......always let it set before letting anyone walk on it........

Hi Dave, thanks for reply but i,ve not had this happen to me before, evey grout line has a hair line crack up the centres even up to walls etc i.ve changed from Bal to Granfix products the start of the year saving me some money so far, not now!!!
The grout was powder mix full flex same as tile addy, as soon as we looked in the bathroom you could see the cracks etc before we entered the room.

[Dave]

Was the grout suitable for your 5 mm joint..?.......just another thought....
was it a flexible wide joint grout..?

[Daywalker]

Originally Posted by Dave

Was the grout suitable for your 5 mm joint..?.......just another thought....
was it a flexible wide joint grout..?

Hi Dave the floor grout is suitable from 5mm to 20mm so i thought no probs etc do a small area at a time as you do.
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Originally Posted by MICK the Tiler

How long did you leave the floor tiles to dry before grouting?


Please guys don't use pva for admix use a proper admix for grouts and glues pva is not designed for use with cement based products and you will gain no advantage in doing so.

Using pva in your adhesives and grouts will cause the pva to be slowly attacked by alkali, forming acetic acid as a hydrolysis product. not something you want in a grout or adhesive as they will slowly break down as a result.

Please refrain from using pva as an admix PLEASE!!!!!

Hi Mick the tiles were left to dry over night etc.

[Dave]

As mentioned it can be caused by..

1. too wet a grout mix..

2. drying to quickly. i.e heating on or a breeze blowing over the floor.

3. walking on the floor too early...

4 . and finaly poor mixing of the grout....

let us know wot the tech guys say and good luck...either way it is going to be a re-grout....

[maudegonne]

Originally Posted by MICK the Tiler

How long did you leave the floor tiles to dry before grouting?


Please guys don't use pva for admix use a proper admix for grouts and glues pva is not designed for use with cement based products and you will gain no advantage in doing so.

Using pva in your adhesives and grouts will cause the pva to be slowly attacked by alkali, forming acetic acid as a hydrolysis product. not something you want in a grout or adhesive as they will slowly break down as a result.

Please refrain from using pva as an admix PLEASE!!!!!

Gosh..... it sounds like I really have to stop listening to advice given in my local tileshop. Because they told me to use PVA (so it spreads easier) and they also told me to seal travertine before grouting.....
How long before this breakdown of the grout will occur? I did use it on my own floors. They have been down for a year and a half almost and it still looks fine.....
Just wondering.... suppose there is nothing I can do about it now....