Problem with adhesive or sth else?

[funkykoval]

Hi all,

I tiled one small wall (my first attempt ever). It is an empty semi with no heating at the moment. Wall was prepared as follows:
- old paint removed where i could
- remaining paint roughed
- NO primer
- tiles went onto plaster board

I used ready mixed wall tile adhesive from Wickes. Tiles did stick preety good so I did what i could and left. The following morning i was drilling a hole in a wall for a wooden support (hammer drill) when one of tiles felf off (the closest one to the drill. That was about 12h after tailing. Than i tried onther tiles and I could remove two more with a little bit of force with my fingers.

Wall under removed tiles was wet, adhesive still soft (all stuck on the back of the tile). I stopped all the work and got a bit worried. My first thought was - poor adhesive, but when i thought about it, I think that it simply may not me dry yet.

Additionally whet I had a look at these three tiles that came off so easily ( I left them in a stack), second and third tile were all wet, as if some moisture was comminu out of the tile on top of them.

I put a heater in there, closed the door and I plan to look at it tomorrow. I hope that once it is dry it will bond properly.

What do you guys think? My concern is that maybe I will have to take them all off, change adhesive, maybe prime walls, god knows what else...

I could do with a little bit of a professionall advice. Have any of you tiled empty and cold bathrooms, in the winter? How long does an adhesive need to dry under such conditions? Am I doing sth wrong?

Help please :-)

[Ducati853]

Hi,

Depending on how cold this bathroom is, you shouldn't be attempting to use any ceramic tiling adhesive below 5 degree's celcius.

All ready mixed adhesives dry through dispersion, which means that they will only dry if the water in the adhesive can evaporate basically. At 20 degrees a ready mixed adhesive used onto a plasterboard ie: porous backgroud and with ceramic tiles would normally be dry at 24 hours and therefore ready to grout. In a colder environment or if the tiles are large format or porcelain then the drying time will be greatly increased (by days in some cases) you should also not be using a ready mixed adhesive above 3mm in thickness which is another reason that it may not be dry after 24 hours.

From what you have said, you have done correctly in removing as much paint as possible and would hope that after you "roughed up" the remaining paint, you cleaned any dust or contamination from the surafce before starting to tile!?

I think that you should check the remaining tiles that are fixed by physically trying to remove one after a couple of days, if the tiles come off the adhesive is still wet then you have one or some of the above issues. You should then remove the tiles, make sure that the room is of a suitable temperature (if very cold) clean the walls properley, making sure that there are no loose flakes of paint left on the wall.
You do not usually have to prime a gypsum substrate if using a ready mixed adhesive, but if you feel the need too then please make sure that it is a primer that is either acrylic or an sbr type which is meant for tiling, do not use p.v.a

If you want to guarantee (more or less) that the adhesive will dry in a day then prime the walls with acrylic primer and then use a standard setting/white flexible adhesive which will dry typically in 16 hours as long as its not too cold. Also make sure you are getting a good coverage with the trowel and fixing the tiles within approx 20 mins of spreading the adhesive on the wall.

Hope thats some help!

[funkykoval]

Thanks for your comments.
Yes I did brush all the dust off the wall. The temperature in the bathroom is not that low. It feels like 16-18deg C.
I did one thing different though. I put adhesive onto tile, and than stick it to the wall cose I found it easier. Can that affect adhesion? I press and slightly twist tile while fixing onto wall.
From what ur saying them tiles may need a couple of days, even with a radiator warming the room up.
I ll have a look at them tomorrow. I did put two scrap tiles on other walls just to see if the heater makes any difference after about 15h.

[Ducati853]

If you can, try and apply the adhesive to the wall then press the tile into the adhesive, making sure that you twist it slightly and squash down the ribs to get a good adhesion and coverage. Apllying adhesive to the tile is ok for the odd tile/ cuts etc, but its more difficult to apply the correct pressure needed to form a good bond...

That temperature is fine for tiling purposes and the adhesive should dry in approx 24 hours (if not before). Make sure all the tiles are dry before fixing them though.

The adhesive should be dry behind the tiles by tomorrow, if you can still prise one off the wall or the adhesive is still wet, then you have a problem somewhere.

Good luck!

[funkykoval]

thanks mate. Hopefully tomorrow it will be ok

[Captain Slow]

I've just done a bathroom in a new build that has no power, water, heating, building not sealed or secure etc...

It was effin freezing all the time I was in there (mainly 'cos I had the window open with my extension lead coming in, but everyone needs somwhere to plug the radio into - lol!).

I was using Mapei D2 onto plasterboarded walls with ceramics. Stuck 'em yesterday and grouted this morning - the tiles were going nowhere!

I've never dabbled with Wickes ready mix but it may be worth checking the drying times on the tub??

[Pawelzik]

Originally Posted by Captain Slow

... but it may be worth checking the drying times on the tub??

That certainly will be of help. I checked several ready to use dispersion adhesives here on the german market and the drying time for a quality product with EN 12004 D2TE-certification needs 3 to 7 days before grouting. Martin

[balloonlady]

Is it possible that the painted walls had been papered at one time? Check to see if the wall is slimy, if it is, chances are it's wall paper paste.... which will need to be cleaned off the wall before tiling

[funkykoval]

Finally i got some time to post a reply. Thanks to all of you for your advices.
The tub says that I shouldn't grout sooner than 24h after tiling. I guess thats the time needed for the adhesive to dry.
With the heating tiles stick well. On my first wall a few tiles had to be replaced cose I could remove them with my fingers. The rest is ok. New tiles that I fit look and feel ok.
So I shall cary on, until finished and hope that in time all the tiles won't fall off the wall :-)
Thanks again

[whitebeam]

I tend to find is to work the tile into the addy by perhaps a twisting motion rather than placing the tile straight on, Not saying that's what you did

[funkykoval]

the way i placed a tile was as follows - adhesive onto the tile and that A LOT of twisting while in position on the wall, that slide it into position.
On few occasions I fould that my tile is up side down and i had to remove it and that i noticed that about half of the adhesive stays on the tile and the rest stays on the wall.
So I guess this technique is working. I didnt put the adhesive on the wall cose without enough experience it ended up in a mess very quickly :-)

[grumpygrouter]

You will find that by trowelling the wall you can get a more consistant level bed of adhesive and you will get much less of it on your hands!

You are correct to remove the occasional tile to check your coverage though.

Grumpy