Help with choosing BAL \ Unibond ceramic tile adhesive.

[FiscoKing]

Hi,

I'm about to get my main bathroom tiled (ceramic).
The last bathroom that I had done used water resistant powered adhesive from BAL (I forget which one).

I thought this time round I'd use a waterPROOF tile adhesive - so that there's an extra barrier to stop the water getting out (wet area shower).

I noticed that B&Q sell Unibond waterproof tile adhesives in a tub (and in powered form perhaps - could be wrong). It is branded Unibond though.

I rang the BAL technical helpline and asked for their offerings of waterproof adhesive. The only one he said they did was an epoxy based adhesive - and it was expensive.

I pointed out that Unibond offer waterproof cement based adhesives, and he replied that he didn't see how they could be waterproof - becuase they were water based / ready mixed.

Dunlop have a waterproof adhesive here:
Dunlop Waterproof Wall Tile Adhesive 7.5kg - Screwfix.com, Where the Trade Buys
Unibond waterproof here (does wetrooms too):
Unibond Anti-Mould Waterproof Adhesive & Grout - Screwfix.com, Where the Trade Buys
BAL Mosiac fix (only water resistant):
Mosaic Fix
So I rang the Unibond tech help line, and they said their water based tile adhesives were waterproof and not simply water resistant, because of some additive.

Now, either Unibond have the jump on BAL, or Unibond have changed their definition of waterproof.

It could just be that Unibond have an unpublished and very unique definition of waterproof, whereas BAL are a bit more honest, or it could just be that BAL have gotten so large they're lazy and don't see the need to develop better products (this does happen sometimes).
I have this question on another diy forum, but no one there seems to have experience of the Unibond \ Dunlop stuff, so it's difficult to gauge why people avoid it.
I just thought that if the option of a waterproof adhesive was available for the same price as water resistant, I should use that.

Thanks.

[Dave]

The Unibond one is only water resistant not waterproof.......

BAL were correct..you need an epoxy based adhesive/grout to get a fully waterproof adhesive....

If you want a waterproof shower installation then tank the walls and tile with a cement based adhesive....Or just grout with an epoxy grout.....but tanking would be my option...

[FiscoKing]

Originally Posted by Dave

The Unibond one is only water resistant not waterproof.......

The wording on the tub does say waterproof, not water resistant (same for the Dunlop one).

If you are correct, then Unibond can be done for trade descriptions.

There's a big difference between waterproof and resistant.

[sWe]

I think you might find this post informative. It is about some missconceptions about waterproofing, epoxy, and tiles.

What the manufacturers call "waterproof" cementious adhesives, may have been modified with additives which make them absorb less moisture. Still, they're not waterproof per se. I haven't run into any such adhesives, atleast.
That, or they've simply confused waterproof with water resistant, and I think is the most common explanation.

There are waterproofing compounds which are cement based, but they aren't vapor proof, which means moisture will still be able to travel through it. Those products are normally used in external applications, such as outdoor pools.

[Dave]

Exactly......sometimes the wording waterproof is misleading...when in-fact it is only water resistant.......which means it won't break down in contact with water and to be waterproof means it will stop water penetration full stop......

[grumpygrouter]

If I may make a suggestion FiskoKing, buy yourself a small tub of the WaterPROOF unibond adhesive, apply it to a piece of perspex and let it dry/cure for a few days. Once it is properly set. drip water onto it for an hour or so and see if it penertrates through to the perspex surface. Extreme test I know because even the first drip should bead on the top (like a waxed car bonnet) if it is waterproof. if it doesn't bead you will know it is water resistant, i.e doesn't breakdown when in contact with water and not waterproof. I strongly suspect Unibond are misleading people a little.

[GazTech]

The only three adhesives we have that are waterproof at BAL, are the epoxy resins. These are marketed as grouts but are also suitable as adhesives.....Gaz
BAL Floor Epoxy

Hygienic, Grey, hard-wearing, impervious, epoxide resin based ceramic floor tile grout with a high degree of resistance to chemical attack, abrasion and impact. Suitable for use in interior, exterior, dry and wet locations. The cured grout does not transfer taints to foodstuffs, does not permit entry of bacteria or dirt and is easily maintained in a sterile condition. It is also suitable as high performance epoxy adhesive for fixing ceramic tiles. BAL Floor Epoxy meets the requirements of BS 5980:1980 for resistance to mould growth. It also conforms to BS 5385:Part 4:1992:section 9, for use in sterile conditions.

The product additionally meets the requirements of “The Materials and Articles in Contact with Food Regulations 1987”, “The Food Safety (General Food Hygiene) Regulations 1995” and the EC Directive 93/43 on the Hygiene of Foodstuffs 1993. Ideal for use in abattoirs, breweries, chemical plants, dairies, food/drink processing plants, hospitals, industrial plant rooms, kitchens, shopping malls/supermarkets, sports/leisure centres. Conforms to BS EN 13888, Type R, Class G1.

[FiscoKing]

Thanks for all the replies.

It would appear then that the 'waterproof' designation for cement adhesives is just over-enthuastic marketing.

The BAL people sugested the Mosaic Fix Powder, given that I'm using large tiles (even though it says it's for mosaics), and the blurb says it's good for pools.

I'll get some Wedi board down first.

Thanks.

[whitebeam]

Would,nt touch unibond IMO

[grumpygrouter]

Originally Posted by FiscoKing

Thanks for all the replies.

It would appear then that the 'waterproof' designation for cement adhesives is just over-enthuastic marketing.

The BAL people sugested the Mosaic Fix Powder, given that I'm using large tiles (even though it says it's for mosaics), and the blurb says it's good for pools.

I'll get some Wedi board down first.

Thanks.

Yes, brilliant stuff.. Mosaic-fix is because it is especially ideal for them but it is possibly the best adhesive you can buy if you don't want rapid setting stuff. make sure you clean off your tiles and tools well during installation as it can be a touch difficult if you let it dry.........

[GazTech]

Originally Posted by FiscoKing

Thanks for all the replies.

It would appear then that the 'waterproof' designation for cement adhesives is just over-enthuastic marketing.

The BAL people sugested the Mosaic Fix Powder, given that I'm using large tiles (even though it says it's for mosaics), and the blurb says it's good for pools.

I'll get some Wedi board down first.

Thanks.

Mosaic fix was originally made for mosaics but became one of the best adhesive in manufacture. It is great for large format tiles and has a very high grab factor when wall tiling....Gaz
BAL Mosaic-Fix Tile Adhesive
A bright white, non-slip, water and frost-resistant, cementitious wall and floor tile adhesive specially formulated for fixing mosaic tiles including glass mosaics. It is also suitable for fixing ceramic wall and floor tiles, metal or glass tiles, marble, terrazzo, and natural stone in interior and exterior locations. Suitable for use in swimming pools. Can be used on most surfaces including MDF (in internal dry areas).
Coverage:Mosaic Trowel 1.6kg/m2, Round Notched Trowel 2.0kg/m2, Thin Bed Solid Bed Trowel 2.5kg/m2Bed Thickness : 2-6mmOpen Time: 20 mins Setting Time: 16 hoursPackaging:Available in 20kg, 10kg & 5kg bags Shelf Life: 12 months when stored in original sealed packaging under normal, dry conditions. Protect from damp.Temperature Resistance: -30°C to 100°CPot Life: 5 Hours


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