Grout problems x4 regrouts

I've searched the site and cannot find an answer to this particular problem.
I've had floor tiles laid in the kitchen and the builders decided not to grout then for a couple of weeks as the 'grout will get dirty'. When they did grout them someone used ceramic wall grout in error. They then attempted to rectify the problem using floor grout but this will not stay put. They have now regrouted three times and keep saying that the problem is that they are not getting enough of the old grout out. This latest lot of grout is already coming out. It is crumbling and turning into dust when anything touches it. It appears to be hardening on the surface but not adhereing to anything. I have also noticed that there is alot of adhesive on the edges of the tiles.

Please can anyone suggest a solution as every time they regrout they also chip the tiles so a brand new floor is starting to look very shabby. Is the problem caused by the residue adhesive or the residue wall grout? The tiles are not the problem as they are high quality and have been used successfully elsewhere. Is this a problem they can solve by constantly regrouting or do these tiles have to come up and start again? I also suspect although I'm not certain that some of the tiles may have been fitted using wall adhesive as the adhesive I can see in places is an off white colour.

Getting desperate now.

[Dan]

OK, Sorry to hear your problem.

You need to get that grout out, the new grout will only stick to the old grout. You can use a 'grout rake' or a machine similar to the 'Fein Multimaster' (using the Gold half moon head). But whatever you use, that grout needs to come out.

I'd say it's the tilers job to ensure the grout is fully out and make sure you check that it is and check for chipped tiles, if they chip any I'd also say it's there job to replace them at their cost and time.

Then select a decent grout, perhaps a flexible one as they have polymers in them to allow them to stick a little better as well as making it cope with any slight flex.

Hope this helps you and keep us posted on what goes on!

Thanks for your reply.

The builders are still saying that the new grout will eventually take when they rake down deep enough into the old wall grout. However, each time they do this the floor grout just pops up to expose the shiny smooth wall grout.

Can your clarify a few points for me?

Do they have to get all the old wall grout out as they say this is an impossible task as it sank to under most of the tiles? Also they have no problems removing the floor grout but find it really hard to remove that original ceramic wall grout.

Is the problem caused by the original grout being wall grout as we have never had this problem regrouting floor on floor grout?

I really do not want to reach a stalemate with the builders as everything else is fine.

[Dan]

They need to make sure that all of the old grout is fully out of the grout joint. If they dig deep enough with a rake they should hit adhesive and that's what the new grout will stick to along with the edge of the floor tile.

Accidents can happen in any job, but it's still their problem to fix it for you.

If they dig more and use a decent flexible wide-joint grout or use grout additive in a standard grout you should find it will bond to the wall grout better.

They need to take the whole lot up and re-tile if they've chipped your tiles and left adhesive on the edges. Cowboy tilers, I say.

[Dan]

What happened here anybody?

As admin said b4 use a fein with a diamond tipped blade cost about £50 +VAT for the blade but will get all the grout out straight away. Then re-grout the lot again with floor grout.

[NETT Darren]

Make sure you have a minimum depth of 3mm or the new grout will just keep coming out, Hand held grour rake or Fein machine only two solutions for removal. Make sure you leave the grout to stand for 5-1o mins before using and scrape the sides and work into the rest of it

what kind of floor have the tiles been fixed to. is it concrete, floorboards,tongue and grove etc... could be movement below tiles causing tiles to move this would cause grout to crack, even if it is flexi grout, and even if flexi adhesive was used also. if substrate is not solid this could be causing problem.

[L & R CERAMICS]

as the lads have said its all got to come out ,is the floor moving ,have they used the correct glue ,by the sounds of it they have tiled on to a wooden floor and not used the correct glue i.e flexi floor adhesive and flexi grout,ropey builders wouldnt know these things id want my money back

[tony TLC]

2 questions is the was the floor stable when they started laying as in not floor boards and not chipboard (lots of new floors have a lot of movement)
are the tiles thin if so there wont be that much of a key for the grout to hold to if you have movement in floor
i have fixed a problem like this (not my job i must say)i removed all old grout and used a ready mixed fix and grout (timberflex)and this orked for me you didnt say what colour grout you had?

Grout out as much as possible and use a flexi grout, or mix your chosen grout with and admix to make it flexible.

If tiles are being chipped, then they need to be replaced by the builders. Sounds like the floor is moving and surface preperation hasn't taken place very well by the tiler.

[guy1976]

do you realise this thread was first started june 2006

Originally Posted by guy1976

do you realise this thread was first started june 2006

Oh yeh... Oh well, it was responded to eventually.... lol

[Varley]

LMAO...Hope he hasn't been waiting for a reply