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Discuss Wet UFH on Block & Beam and Joists... in the Underfloor Heating Forum area at TilersForums.co.uk.

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  1. curtly
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    curtly Active Member

    Location:
    yorkshire
    Hi everyone,
    We've an existing kitchen floor on Block & Beam + starting an adjoining extension with wooden joists. (has to be due to slope)

    We are wanting 'Wet UFH' across both surfaces finished off with tiles but only have a maximum height on top of block & beam of 80mm (including tiles), is this realistically do-able ?? I appreciate that screed is probably out of the question due to the lack of height :-(
    The new wooden Joisted extension can be any height but obviously matching/overlapping the existing kitchen.

    Any help or advice would be really appreciated

    Thanks in advance

    Chris
     
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  3. impish
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    impish Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler

    Occupation:
    Tile & Stone Fixer
    Location:
    Lancashire
    Hi, your absolutely best option is bekotec-therm from Schluter. It uses a very thin screed and is perfectly designed for tiles.
    Other low profile ufh systems are out there but where you save on the system, you'll need to spend more on prep for tiling.
    I've recently used nu-heat lo pro and to be fair, it's ok. Total build up height is about 22mm before uncoupling membrane and tiles.
     
    curtly likes this.
  4. whitebeam
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    whitebeam Moderator Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner

    Occupation:
    Tiler
    Location:
    Hertfordshire
  5. jcrtiling
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    jcrtiling Professional Tiler

    Occupation:
    Tiler
    Location:
    Salisbury
    Should there not be a recommended thickness of celotex on top of block and beam floor . If I remember rightly we had to have a minimum of 80 mm to comply with building regulations
     
  6. curtly
    Offline

    curtly Active Member

    Location:
    yorkshire
    Would the Nuheat LoPro Max require an insulation layer then chipboard underneath it first ?
     
  7. curtly
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    curtly Active Member

    Location:
    yorkshire
    For the extension area this should be do-able as its joists, the existing block & beam currently has 30mm foam + 25mm chipboard on top
     
  8. impish
    Online

    impish Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler

    Occupation:
    Tile & Stone Fixer
    Location:
    Lancashire
    Hmm, unsure. You'll need insulation. How much and how thick i can't say. Mine was into existing uninsulated concrete.
    Nu-heat are clued up, might be worth a call.
    There's got to be thinner alternatives in 2017?!
     
    curtly likes this.
  9. jcrtiling
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    jcrtiling Professional Tiler

    Occupation:
    Tiler
    Location:
    Salisbury
    Take out chipboard . Put in 125 guage slip coat (I think that's the thickness) fix ufh to insulation then pump screed on top
     
    curtly likes this.
  10. jcrtiling
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    jcrtiling Professional Tiler

    Occupation:
    Tiler
    Location:
    Salisbury
    If you can fit in wooden joists why can you not fit in block and beam floor again it would be better than introducing wood .
     
  11. curtly
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    curtly Active Member

    Location:
    yorkshire
    That's a very good point, I'll speak to the builder...
     
  12. jcrtiling
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    jcrtiling Professional Tiler

    Occupation:
    Tiler
    Location:
    Salisbury
    If it's not built yet it can be done as it's all about the ground work. I can't imagine there is a tiler on here that would prefer to tile to timber suspended floor instead of solid screed .
     
  13. JulianSidney
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    JulianSidney Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler

    Occupation:
    Self employed tiler
    Location:
    ramsey, essex
    Business Name:
    Julian Sidney Tiling
    Contact Tel:
    07974564597
  14. curtly
    Offline

    curtly Active Member

    Location:
    yorkshire
    Thanks for the responses guys, lots of food for thought.

    Its looking like a toss-up between the Nu-heat LoPro Max with a low profile screed finish and the ProWarm solid floor panels.

    I like the idea of the Screed finish for conductivity and being fully sealed base but reckon the solid panels would add a bit more rigidity :confused:
     
  15. Chalker
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    Chalker Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner

    Occupation:
    Plumber/ bathroom fitter
    Location:
    Tadcaster
    Business Name:
    Walker plumbing and heating
    Contact Tel:
    07808914448
    Nu heat Lo pro max. Has the best kW per m2 for a 25mm total build up.

    In this case, though. I would recommend an odd apraoch!!

    Firstly I would bin the timber joists and fit a block and beam floor.
    Set the level of this floor 160mm down from finished floor level . Fit 100mm insulation as per building regs.
    Then for the existing floor ( bear with me) I would fit 25mm insulation ( I know it's not perfect, but it's the best that can be done). This will line up with the new extension floor. Cover with membrane and fit standard wet underfloor.
    55mm screed on top.

    Somtimes bending the rules works. Not perfect, but works.
     
    curtly likes this.
  16. curtly
    Offline

    curtly Active Member

    Location:
    yorkshire
    Interesting, that was my own thoughts at the start, is 55mm screed the minimum acceptable as I've got tiles to add to that 80mm ?
     
  17. Chalker
    Offline

    Chalker Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner

    Occupation:
    Plumber/ bathroom fitter
    Location:
    Tadcaster
    Business Name:
    Walker plumbing and heating
    Contact Tel:
    07808914448
    50-55 is minimum for tiling onto. Speak to a screed supplier, they can add fibres to strengthen it. Then it can be reduced by a bit.
    @Ajax123@Ajax123 on here is the forum expert on here.
     
    curtly likes this.
  18. jcrtiling
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    jcrtiling Professional Tiler

    Occupation:
    Tiler
    Location:
    Salisbury
    Calcium sulphate screeds can go in thinner than sand cement screeds .
     
  19. Swindiff
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    Swindiff Active Member

    Location:
    Swindon
    Gyvlon Thermio+ can go down unbonded onto insulation at a thickness as low as 35mm. I had it installed in my kitchen on top of 50mm celotex. My minimum thickness was 36mm, maximum was 52mm and average was 48mm. More than pleased with it and extremely responsive to the heat in the UFH pipes. I can start to feel it coming through the floor in less than 30 minutes with porcelain tiles laid on top. I had heard all the stores of UFH having to be run pretty much constantly because it takes forever to heat up and cool down, not with this stuff, my UFH gets turned on and of as I would have with the radiators.

    Gyvlon Launches New Thermio+ Screed; EasyFlow to Supply Nationwide | EasyFlow - http://www.easyflow.org.uk/news/thermio-screed/
     
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