Waterproofing An Aqua Dec - Tile Advice

[Impey Showers]

4 days and still @Impey Showers have not been able to answer my basic questions!

Apologies, busy times!
I've a few shots taken recently that can show the typical install we see. I'll post these and hopefully we can discuss the issue you're having as its not something we believe we have seen before.

 

[Impey Showers]

Julian,

Here are 2 installs that have been down for 3 months - can you identify for us where on your installs you see the WaterGuard lifting.
Thanks

 

[Ian]

In the bottom pic, the membrane is peeling away from the curve into the drain. In my opinion, this should be lapped further into the drain so that the clamp is fitted over the top and holds it in place. I've had a couple of installs recently that have needed revisits due to water ingress in this area due to it not being water tight. I can say with confidence, that this is a weak spot in the installation process.

 

[J Sid]

@Impey Showers if you read all this thread you will see the questions I would like answers to are
1. It is claimed by one of your sales persons the the waterproofing membrane can only have 160W max electric ufh wires over it but there is no max output for wet ufh under it, is this correct?
2. It was also claim that the membrane also worked as an uncoupling which is capable of handling 10mm of substrate movement, is the also correct?

 

[Qwerty]

On every install I have done, the clamp ring never has as small a gap as your picture does between the clamp ring & membrane. Mine is always a bigger gap than that which is why I have to shim it out with a slither of waterguard. Shame I haven't taken any photos

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Not sure how poor installation should be the fault of the Impey product, why is the membrane not cut further into the outlet curve.
Ontop of a wooden floor the maximum output of the heating mat was always 100w.
As an uncoupling membrane its seems like a similar product to the BAL crack mat.

 

[Ian]

Not sure how poor installation should be the fault of the Impey product, why is the membrane not cut further into the outlet curve.
Ontop of a wooden floor the maximum output of the heating mat was always 100w.
As an uncoupling membrane its seems like a similar product to the BAL crack mat.

With the membrane into the drain, this is what impey say to do on the installation instructions, it is in my opinion, an error. I too believe that it should be cut longer to allow it to be clamped. I think the installation instructions need to be revised.

 

[J Sid]

Not sure how poor installation should be the fault of the Impey product, why is the membrane not cut further into the outlet curve.
Ontop of a wooden floor the maximum output of the heating mat was always 100w.
As an uncoupling membrane its seems like a similar product to the BAL crack mat.

The tray demonstrated to me sits on the joists, wooden floor cut away and definitely claimed 160w max ufh wire but sale man said there was no max limit for water ufh under tray, I find this hard to believe !
Membrane may be similar to bal, do they claim 10mm of movement uncoupling?

 

[Impey Showers]

The latest word from our Technical department states:

The seal is not formed by compressing or trapping the membrane. The seal is formed on the back surface of the membrane against the rounded face of the gully bowl. The seal is achieved by the membrane being forced against the seal face, this is because when the clamp is inserted tension is applied to the membrane causing it to cling tightly to the sealing faces (the butyl adhesive only adds to the seal). This is why its important to have a perfectly round, correctly sized hole in the membrane.

Uncoupling: We can confirm that WaterGuard does allow for 10mm movement and has been independently tested and has recorded time lapse footage available to see online. WaterGuard was developed to eliminate the need to have to add a separate decoupler/uncoupler in the install process.

UFH: The 160watt advice seems to us, to be outdated. Rule of thumb; 100watts for wooden floors and up to 200 on concrete floors; temperatures of up to 60 degrees in contact with any underfloor heating.
Wet underfloor heating doesn't come in to contact as there will be a thickness of screed or a void depending on floor build up.

We hope this helps answer some queries. We really do appreciate the opportunity to discuss.

 

[Qwerty]

On every install I have done, the clamp ring never has as small a gap as your picture does between the clamp ring & membrane. Mine is always a bigger gap than that which is why I have to shim it out with a slither of waterguard. Shame I haven't taken any photos

Ok, finally got around to photographing the issue on one of my installations.....

Here my pics show the issue of the gap mentioned (demonstrated by the inserted scissors in the gap), and how I have to pack it out to prevent the membrane lifting up from the curved edge of the edge of the bowl.

This same issue has been present on every single Impey easy fit former I have fitted. Any ideas @Impey Showers ?

 

[One Day]

An over-thought design if ever there was one!

 

[Impey Showers]

Thanks for this. Passed on to technical.

 

[Impey Showers]

Hi, feedback from our technical department..

There is no reason that this should cause an issue, this is because the clamp is not really a clamp, it doesn't pinch the membrane (or vinyl) to make a seal.

The clamp is not pressing or squeezing the membrane it is purely holding it in compression and forcing it against the bowl. The seal is formed on the underside of the membrane against the curved face of the bowl.
As long as the membrane is under tension and pushed against the curved sealing face of the bowl it will be watertight.

If you'd like to discuss this in further detail with the team who do not have access to this forum please feel free to do so. Forum moderator: In no way whatsoever are we trying to deflect this discussion internally, sometimes its just easier to talk than type.

 

[SJPurdy]

Impey.
Thanks for your input to the forum. Talking with the tech people may help them understand what the actual problem is. I've not used the product so I am guessing users are questioning whether "the membrane is under tension and pushed against the curved sealing face of the bowl". It is really useful to other potential users of the product (professionals that use this forum) that these answers are given here as well otherwise when they use it they may also end up un-necessarily worrying that there may be design flaws.

 

[Impey Showers]

Thanks, completely understand and agree. It's open feedback and forums like this that help us, and the industry, design better products. Hopefully we can effectively 'cut corners' with intelligent design so that corners aren't cut on the job.

It would be great to potentially have a dedicated space here on what products members would like to see developed. What day to day frustrations are experienced that us and other manufacturers could help address?