Victorian Mosaic Pathway question - Tile Advice

[Mozart1812]

Hello all,

I'm in the throes of a front garden restoration project across 6 terraced houses in London, SE18 and seeking a tiler to complete 3 pathways. Some have the original Victorian pathway intact but the others have had to be removed due to their being unsalvageable. I'm getting very mixed opinions from Conservation specialists to experienced tilers.

The original tiles were butted together and given that the intention is to match as close to the original, this is what the neighbours insist on having; however, quite a few tilers prefer to use grout lines between tiles and whilst some manufacturers advise that their tiles are supplied on this basis some are not so insistent. I understand that the original tiles were perhaps laid on a solid concrete/screed bed and to do the same with a notched adhesive bed may create problems since rain water would sit beneath the tiles and, presumably, gradually erode the adhesive.

Would be great to have some advice on the best way forward given the intention to have butt jointed tiles.

Thank you

 

[MTiler]

You need to speak to @Phil Hobson

 

[Andy Allen]

Or timeless john...
Should imagine it's more of a job for spring / summer . ..

 

[Time's Ran Out]

These have all been done with a 2mm joint.

 

[Simons70]

Pic 16 is my favorite ,doubt have 2 mm joint

 

[Mozart1812]

Hi MissTiler, Andy and John,

Thanks for the prompt responses. Joints are what we want to avoid and whilst there are plenty tilers skilled and experienced to lay mosaic tiles, my question is surrounds not just getting the job done but what's suitable and acceptable and will last the test of time as current one. The attached is one that was completed on the first 2 houses that had its original pathways removed quite sometime ago. The tiler is no longer available but had butt jointed the tiles as required; however, I'm concerned that since the notched adhesive bed was used, they, the neighbours, may see tiles lifting up in due course.

 

[Andy Allen]

I wouldn't butt joint any tile as there's no room for expansion . ...

 

[andy8758]

Interesting post. A true renovation would follow the original skills to achieve the same finished result. Most of BS5385 relates to current tiling practice, which is thin bed tiling. The originals were laid using a thick bed of adhesive. So, in the interests of authenticity, why not use the original method of tiling the path?

 

[Rich Midge]

Who's supplying the tiles? I've used Original Style extensively over the years and as good as they are there's no way they can be butt jointed. There's always variation in sizes between the different colours and shapes. Especially after production moved out of the UK some years back. Same goes for Olde English Tile Company and London Mosaics imo. The concerns you have over the recently laid butt jointed path is valid. Water getting between and under the tiles and freezing is the biggest concern.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

I'd have no qualms about butt jointing the tiles (1mm) paper joint and using a suitable outside adhesive. The base would have to be prepared properly the tiles I would have to cut to size and as they would be solid bed fixed you would have no concerns re 'lifting'.
What I would observe however is the setting out and sizes of your photo shown. There should be complete symmetry inside and outside of the design with full/half pieces being the norm and not cut as in that case. It looks as though he's done the perimeter frame and filled in the mat!! Doesn't look very authentic to me.
Just my opinion of course.

 

[area tiling]

View attachment 86594
These have all been done with a 2mm joint.

Some great work their John !!

 

[Mozart1812]

Interesting post. A true renovation would follow the original skills to achieve the same finished result. Most of BS5385 relates to current tiling practice, which is thin bed tiling. The originals were laid using a thick bed of adhesive. So, in the interests of authenticity, why not use the original method of tiling the path?

Hi Andy,
Thanks for the guidance. I think this is perhaps why I'm up against the divide in that the majority understandably adhere to current tiling practices for a 19th century look and feel. The original method seems the way forward so thank you again.

 

[Mozart1812]

Who's supplying the tiles? I've used Original Style extensively over the years and as good as they are there's no way they can be butt jointed. There's always variation in sizes between the different colours and shapes. Especially after production moved out of the UK some years back. Same goes for Olde English Tile Company and London Mosaics imo. The concerns you have over the recently laid butt jointed path is valid. Water getting between and under the tiles and freezing is the biggest concern.

Hi Rich,
The tiles have already been purchased from Original Style and they are being amazingly helpful and completely understand what we want to achieve. The vast amount of their tiles can be butt-jointed since we've dry laid the tiles although there are some that are slightly out although we having this resolved.

 

[Mozart1812]

I'd have no qualms about butt jointing the tiles (1mm) paper joint and using a suitable outside adhesive. The base would have to be prepared properly the tiles I would have to cut to size and as they would be solid bed fixed you would have no concerns re 'lifting'.
What I would observe however is the setting out and sizes of your photo shown. There should be complete symmetry inside and outside of the design with full/half pieces being the norm and not cut as in that case. It looks as though he's done the perimeter frame and filled in the mat!! Doesn't look very authentic to me.
Just my opinion of course.

Hi John,
I'm in complete agreement with you on the authenticity and to the inexperienced, this hopefully would not be noticeable. I had grave concerns on the method of starting with the border and in-laying the centre which in my opinion should have complete symmetry with the borders merely filling the void.

 

[Rich Midge]

Hi Rich,
The tiles have already been purchased from Original Style and they are being amazingly helpful and completely understand what we want to achieve. The vast amount of their tiles can be butt-jointed since we've dry laid the tiles although there are some that are slightly out although we having this resolved.

Good to hear, looks like they may have upped their game with regards to both customer service and manufacturing quality control. Best of luck with the project.