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Discuss Help! Tiled wetroom floor looks perfect but grout doesn't dry out! in the Tiling News; Tile News area at TilersForums. USA and UK Tiling Forum

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We had a wet room installed about 8 months ago. The floor is tiled with large 60x60cm porcelain tiles laid on Impey Waterguard membrane and the shower tray is Impey Aquadec Easyfit with the membrane laid over the top. It is a new-build first floor bathroom (new extension on older house) with a suspended timber floor. The tiles appear to be laid well and there has been no obvious movement or cracking of grout (Bal Micromax). However, almost immediately we noticed that in the shower area some areas of grout (which is light grey) did not dry out, and over time about 50% of the grout lines were permanently dark, even when the shower was not used for a few days. I searched tile forums and became concerned that the tiles had been laid on an incomplete layer of https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/, and that water was pooling underneath them, leading to permanently wet grout, but could not see any evidence of the tiles coming up or moving about, which usually seems to happen with problems like this.

Our builder called back the tiler who swore that he had used the correct amount and type of https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/, and said that if he had not done so then the grout would have cracked on the floor. Bal, the grout and https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ manufacturers, were called, but their "expert" tried to claim that the dark patches were not, in fact, wet, but possibly mould or even dirt! He agreed that it looked like the tiles had been correctly laid and suggested leaving the floor to dry and then replacing the grout and then using a sealer to stop water soaking through the grout. When I mentioned the possibility of https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ not covering the back of the tiles, he agreed with the builder that it was very difficult to achieve a completely flat bed of https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/, suggesting that it was almost inevitable that some pooling of water under the tiles would occur, leading to patches of wet grout.

We agreed to wait for the floor to dry out. We are now on week 5 (in a warm room with underfloor heating in the rest of the floor away from the shower tray!) and there is still a small wet patch, but most is back to the normal light grey colour. It took about 3 weeks for most of the moisture to go and the dark patches to disappear, so we have now discounted the mould/dirt theories, but are concerned that there must have been quite a lot of water sitting under the tiles for them to remain wet so long! The builder now just wants to seal the dried grout, and not re-grout at all. He is refusing to do anything else.

I have talked to most of the manufacturers of grout sealers, and they all say that their products will not completely waterproof grout, so I cannot see that this will be a long-term solution (also, don't fancy waiting for the floor to dry out each time it needs re-applying!). Epoxy grout seems like a good idea, but the builder seems to think that it would eventually crack if used on a timber floor (although when I spoke to Mapei about Kerapoxy they said that it should be fine as long as the floor is not bouncing around a lot, which it is not).

What I'd really like advice on is:

- is it normal to have permanently wet patches in grout on wet room floors even if the floor appears to be well laid?

- if we leave the floor as it is, will we be storing up trouble for the future? Am I being too fussy??!

- Is it possible to lay tiles in a pre-formed shower tray on a completely flat bed of https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/, or will there always be gaps for water to collect in?

- Should we consider a grout sealer or epoxy grout to solve the problem or do the tiles need taking up and re-laying? (massive Job I imagine as
there is a huge glass shower screen resting on one grout joint and the membrane may be damaged in the process?)

It does feel like I am being fobbed off by the builder and the tiler, but admittedly the wet grout patches are the only problems so far. It would be great to hear from anyone who has had similar problems. I can't quite see the point of having tiled shower trays if they always look different to the rest of the tiled floor!

Thanks!




 
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Paula

Are you 100% sure water isn't getting under the screen ?

Well, all I know is that the tiler scraped out all the grout on the wet side of the screen and replaced it with epoxy, which still looks intact, then we put a large amount of clear silicone where the metal frame of the screen meets the tiles. So I would say it was almost impossible for water to get under the screen from on top of the tiles. Strangely, the grout does not get wet on the 'dry' side until a couple of inches away from the screen!
 

Dave

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Well, all I know is that the tiler scraped out all the grout on the wet side of the screen and replaced it with epoxy, which still looks intact, then we put a large amount of clear silicone where the metal frame of the screen meets the tiles. So I would say it was almost impossible for water to get under the screen from on top of the tiles. Strangely, the grout does not get wet on the 'dry' side until a couple of inches away from the screen!

It seems it could be creeping in the https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ bed... How is the drain sealed at the tile edges ?
 
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Paula

It seems it could be creeping in the https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ bed... How is the drain sealed at the tile edges ?

The tiler didn't leave much room between the tile and the metal drain edge, but the tiny gaps were originally sealed with ordinary Bal grout, and now Mapei epoxy (although I can't guarantee that he was able to scrape out every tiny bit of original grout....
 
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Paula

I've just tried to take some photos of the wet patches of grout on the 'dry' side of the screen (12 hours after last shower!). Used a low quality image as I had trouble uploading photos before, but I can try higher resolution if you can't see anything!
 

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The D

That's very interesting, deanotile! So where exactly was the water coming from in the shower? Do you mean from somewhere in the tray? And, more importantly, how did you fix it?
one was a leak from the shower control where the plumber had not compressed the olive enough and the water was soaking throgh the https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ and coming out in the grout joints on the floor and the other was a badly sealed wall jet and the effect was much the same as the first one. the plumer fixed the leak and the problem was solved
 
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Paula

View attachment 74095

That grout doesn't look to clever.

You sure it's not https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ showing through?


No, I don't think that's https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/: the dark patches are damp (the dark patch furthest away from the wall you can actually see beads of moisture) plus nearest the wall there is efflorescence, where (I assume) the water has evaporated from the grout and left a deposit. The grout was perfect until a few weeks into using the shower, but then we had problems in the shower tray with damp grout (now fixed by re-grouting with epoxy). Since then, the damp patches outside the shower have become worse.
 
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Paula

Pics are a bit inconclusive but as @Dan says, it doesn't look too clever. You sure it's damp?

Yes, it's definitely damp: you can see beads of moisture on one patch after a shower, plus if you put a piece of tissue paper over and press you can see that the paper is damp. We had exactly the same problem in the shower tray (discussed at length earlier in this thread!) and when the dark patches were tested with a damp meter they were shown to be damp.
 
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Paula

one was a leak from the shower control where the plumber had not compressed the olive enough and the water was soaking throgh the https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ and coming out in the grout joints on the floor and the other was a badly sealed wall jet and the effect was much the same as the first one. the plumer fixed the leak and the problem was solved

I must admit I hadn't thought that water could be coming from the walls...but if it was wouldn't we be seeing damp patches on the wall grout, too? These have not been replaced with epoxy, but dry out very quickly
 
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Paula

If it's 100% not a leak then the solution is the same no matter what the cause. Put it down as one of life's mysteries. But then grout with epoxy?

Well, we'll certainly check out the leak theory. But if we can't find one, then are you saying that it's ok to just keep covering with epoxy? I can't help thinking that we are only masking the problem, and that there shouldn't really be any water under the tiles at all. Long term, is it ok then to have water trapped under tiles?
 

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