Hello,
I was hoping for some advice, I recently bought a house that had an main family bathroom with "upgraded" shower wet room. It is located on the first floor, over the garage.
From the outset it has been a bit of a nightmare, with water leaking though the floor into the garage below. I have been able to identify the leak to the grout both around the top of the brown tiles (where they meet the beige shown in picture "side") and also where the vertical brown tiles meet the shower base. The grout has deteriorated badly, considering installed in 2008. I have had the shower resealed with silicon (several times) which stops the leak until the silicon breaks down. I was after some advice to provide a more permanent remedy, and was wondering whether replacing the grout with epoxy grout then sealing with silicon would do it or whether the tiles need to come out and be relaid. I don't know the method of construction and am trying to find out from the prior owner. Any thoughts more than welcome!
Regards
Will

Hi Will

I assume you purchased your house after the new shower area had been installed? If so, did the previous owners leave you with any documentation regarding the company/tiler who re-fitted the bathroom? My first port of call would be the original installers. If the shower area is failing in only 2 years, knowing how it was installed to start with will help you to identify what you need to do to rectify the situation.

As you have said that re-siliconing stops the leak only temporarily (until the silicone breaks down) continuing to re-silicone will not be a long term problem solver. Have you re-siliconed yourself or did you get a tiler in to do it for you?

When you say the silicone breaks down, what do you mean by this? Is it detaching from the tiles? If the shower area is rigid, and the silicone is applied correctly according to manufacturers instructions, I'm struggling to see how silicone will fail so quickly.

to the forum by the way. There are lots of pro tilers on here who encounter these issues in their working lives, so you've come to the right place. We have a number of members in your area who would be happy to come out and have a look at the issue with you.

GRR

Hi, yes the wet room was installed and I am trying to extract the name and number of the plumber/tiler who installed from the previous owner and agree knowing how it was constructed will help. I can tell from below, that looking up from garage a new suspended timber floor was put in but cant deduce anything else.
I had a plumber reseal the shower, which worked but then it leaked from a small hole in the grout on the wall (where the brown meets the beige) so to make sure this was the problem I covered with silicon and it stopped. Subsequently the silicon round the base has lifted in the corner and the leak reappeared. I stripped it out last night and it was wet behind the silicon and I noticed the grout was breaking down around the base. That is it is crumbling and wet. Parts of it have come away with the silicon.
Will

Sorry forgot to mention, yes I would appreciate any contact details of recommended tilers who could look at this issue for me!

I'm concerned that the shower area is bouncing around/not rigid enough for people to be walking on it.

Is it only around the bottom area that you can see a problem? Is the grout deteriorating any further up?

Also, does the water drain away easily or does it sit around and not flow to the drain after the shower has been used?

When you get hold of the original installers, ask them what the floor is made up of - ply, aquapanel/cement board and ask them what thickness.

I will ask if I get the info out of the previous owner. The grout further up is fine, it only sems to be around the base. The floor certainly seems rigid, there does not seem to be any movement. The water also drains fine, does not pool in any area or round the drain.

From looking at your photo, am I correct in assuming that the shower is on the left hand side and hits the wall on the right hand side?

Macten is one of our regular members who works around your way. He is a plumber and a tiler. Please see his details in the link.
TilersForums.co.uk | Tile Forums | Tiling Forum - View Profile: macten

Yes you are right, I tried to upload another photo but think it is too big, i will try and ZIP it. It does hit that wall and it is that wall specifically which is the problem, or has been. I will have a look at your members site, I dont want to try and quick fix myself, whilst I am quite handy, and my Dad is a retired builder of 46 years who I used to work with, it out of my comfort zone, well that it is to say I want a professional long lasting remedy. My Dad's view was not complimentary, first he disliked strongly a wetroom upstairs and predicted from the outset it would fail at some point. I need to get it reolved one way or another and if that means refitting then so be it.

i am wondering if it has been tanked before tiling commenced ,if you do get to talk to the installer, try to find out what system was used , IF ANY!! then if you do have to ripp out and re-do then take photos as proof!!for any legal dispute!!

Thanks, I am currently trying to get in touch/get the details of the original installer to understand how it was contructed. If I cant do you suggest ripping out or trying to re-grout and then seal?

Hello Will and welcome to the forum.

There should be no reason why you cant have a wetroom on the first floor as long as it is installed properly. This wetroom has not.

It sound to me that that the tiler has grouted the interior angles (between the floor and the walls) and siliconed over the top. This is wrong because the grout will crack and split over a short period of time and take the silicone with it. If this is the case the grout in ALL the interior angles needs to be removed and replaced with a silicone joint. If this is done correctly there should be no way that the silicone fails that quickly unless there is a huge amount of movement in the floor. You havnt mentioned the rest of the floor, Is there and cracks in the grout or are any of the tiles cracked in the rest of the room?

My main worry at this stage is that the water that has already made its way through the tiling would have done some serious damage to the substrate and it is going to be a major job to put right Im afraid.

Hi there, that certainly seems to ring true, that is there is grout with silicon over the top. The water ingress is coming from that side and making its way though the floor into the garage below. In terms of removing the grout and then using a silicon seal is this as simple as it sounds?
Is it worth trying this or as you say the substrate may be already damaged and therefore will not provide a lasting solution? Would there be other possible cures such as installing a tray? Sorry to bombard you with Q's!

Sorry forgot to say there are no cracked tiles, and the grout around the base where it meets the wall on all other sides seems fine but has been silicon sealed over

Originally Posted by Will

Thanks, I am currently trying to get in touch/get the details of the original installer to understand how it was contructed. If I cant do you suggest ripping out or trying to re-grout and then seal?

Sorry Will, I missed this post. Do everything you can to get hold of them. the problem is what the water has done to the substrate. Regrouting will not help the damage done to the wall behind the tiles. You will need a pro to come and take a look I think.

Thanks again, I will take your advice, GirlRacerRed has already given me a link to somebody nearby on this forum.

To be honest I think the water has prob done a horrible amount of damage to the substrate. Cutting out the grout and replacing it with a silicone joint (it would be worth getting a tiler to do this) will make that joint water proof but you said that there is holes in the grout further up. Even if you have somebody in to cut out and replace all the grout, the substrat will still be ruined. As gooner has said, the entire area should have been tanked. It seems that the installation wasnt done properly from start to finish.

Originally Posted by Will

Thanks again, I will take your advice, GirlRacerRed has already given me a link to somebody nearby on this forum.

Will, please don't be put off by Macten's profile picture... he needed a holiday by that point

I dont doubt that it wasnt done properly given the plonker who did it ran the ensuite waste into a soakaway rather than the mains, I have spent two weekends relaying new drains to clear that one up already! I hate to think what he did in the ensuite shower cubicle as well in terms of waterproofing the walls. Do you think this is a job for a plumber/tiler?

Haha no I wasnt put off in the slightest

Id get the recommended tiler in to have a look and if he says you need a plumber than take it from there. Some tilers do all the work others will not. The problem with going straight to a plumber is that they will almost always say that they will do the work themselves and very few of them know the details like the silicone joints in the corners.

Just been to look at this hoping remedial work would sort it but unfortunately requires ripping out and re-doing properly.

From what I can see looking up from the garage is a sheet of ditra laid on the floorboards (no sign of it being stuck down with spf) then 12mm thick MDF on top of that - all this on a floating floor.
Can put my hand up and feel the backs of the brown skirting tiles that are dot and dabbed at the very tops where the PB ends, below that there is nothing.
Other areas of the bathroom have tiles holding on with grout.

get some photographs nick

Oh dear.
Good man for going to have a look and thanks for letting us know

WOW!.. sounds a right mess..

Another one,

another home owner suffering from the actions of an idiot

Here's the shower waste through what looks and feels like MDF :


Here you can see Ditra onto floorboards, the MDF is then on top of this:


Where walls meet floor:

not a chance of that ever working was there. lost count of the number of houses now that have a shower they don't use because it leaks!

O M G how do they sleep at night that room was doomed the minute they started thanks for the update Macten