Discuss Tiling with Natural Stone in the Stone Tiling Forum at TilersForums; Wanted to put up a post about tiling with natural stone, most of us on here use a lot of it and a lot of us prefer using it to ...
Wanted to put up a post about tiling with natural stone, most of us on here use a lot of it and a lot of us prefer using it to man made tiles. I have come across so many poor stone installations that I would like to put up a post with a Little info on tiling with natural stone and the differences to using a man made tile. If anybody has anything that they would like to add, pics of stone jobs that they have carried out or more info then please feel free
Natural stone Tile
Natural stone tiles have become very popular in recent years partly due to the technology used to cut and distribute stone around the world progressing. This has led to natural stone becoming much more affordable and easily accessible. Many tile suppliers and building merchants now offer natural stone tiles for less then some ceramics.Unfortunately, more often then not this stone is of very poor quality and often people do not consider the extra work and materials needed to install natural stone.
Tiling with natural stone is a totally different animal to tiling with ceramics and my advice to anybody thinking about using natural stone in a DIY tiling project would be to get an experienced professional to carry out the work.
Installing Natural Stone Tiles
Given the benefit of an appropriate selection, most stone tiles can be installed wherever a ceramic tile can be used. In that sense, they require the same setting beds and support and the same thin bed skills used for ceramics but there are some differences in installation.
It is imperative that the correct adhesives/grouts/primers and sealers are chosen for a natural stone installation. The right materials can mean the difference between an installation that will last a life time or a failure (I will add a section at the end of this post on how and where to get the right materials).
Use a white cement based adhesive for light stone as many light coloured stones can be stained by pigments in grey cement.
The processing that the stone had gone through may have left a thin layer of dust on the back of the tile that must be removed before used as the adhesive will not be able to bond to the tile correctly. If the backs of the tiles seem dust then wiping them off with a clean sponge and water should be enough to remove the dust, be sure to leave the stone to dry before using them.
Because we are dealing with a natural material, natural stone tiles are often not square and differ in shape and size. Some natural stone have a tendency to warp when when in prolonged contact with water and others are not suitable for floor installations. If you are unsure if your stone is suitable for your installation then check with the supplier.
Back-buttering
It is recommended that all floor tiles, whether they are natural stone or man made are back buttered, this means that as well as spreading adhesive onto the floor, the tiler will also spread a thin layer of adhesive on to the back of the tile using the flat edge of his trowel before pressing the tile into the bed of adhesive on the floor. The reasoning for this is to gain 100% coverage of adhesive under the tile. Any voids under the tiles will remain a weak and will sooner or later crack and split. When tiling with natural stone, it is very important to get a total coverage of adhesive on the back of the tile, on floors or walls, as some stone will stain slightly even with a white adhesive so each tile should be back buttered before being fixed. Some stone, such as travertine, may have a honey comb structure and these holes in the tile need to be filled with adhesive before being fixed. When using natural stone on floors back buttering is Even more important and the need to achieve 100% adhesive contact is vital as natural stone is not as strong as most man made tiles and will crack and break up without the right adhesive bed.
Cutting Natural Stone
Most stone tiles are best cut with a wet saw fitted with a diamond blade but a well-equipped installer should have a variety of blades for different types of stone. When cutting stone with a wet saw the same technique as cutting ceramic tile is needed: a slow approach to the blade until contact is made, more pressure and cutting speed through the body of the tile, and then a slow exit at the end of the cut. For cutouts it is much easier to use a small dry-cutting diamond blade. The small blade will allow you to get right into the corners for a neat finish. After cutting natural stone with a wet saw, it is recommended that you leave the stone to dry off before bedding it into adhesive as any moistuer on the back of the tile can provent the adhesive from bonding.
Basic Fabrication Techniques
There are endless varieties of different tile trim on the market now a days that help make a tiled room look very nicely finished. But with a stone installation, I think that tile trim can ruin the finish and make the installation look cheap (this is only my opinion). This is another example why it is better to get an experienced professional to carry out a stone installation, a professional with the correct tools can cut and shape stone to give a stunning finish that will never age or go out of date. I am hoping that some of the other members will add some pics of the stone that they have profiled at the end of this post.
Tips on fixing stone
Check the shades of the stone before you begin to tile, if there are differences in the colour of the stone then try to spread the different tiles out
Check the sizes of the tiles before you begin tiling, if the tiles are not all the same thickness then it is a big help to know which are thin and which are thick. If you are laying a floor, try to lay the thin pieces in low traffic areas
Make sure that your stone is dust free and dry before fixing
As with all tiling, the correct trowel must be used to spread the adhesive
The adhesive/grout must be suitable for natural stone and of the right colour so as not to satin the tiles
Every tile should be back buttered before being pressed into to the bed of adhesive
"Back-fill" each tile as you fix it to ensure that there is a good contact of adhesive around the edge of the tile
Work as cleanly as you can, keep a clean bucket of water and sponge next to you and wash off each tile as you go
Be sure to leave stone to dry for long enough before sealing
Above all the correct substrate preparation must be carried out
Tiling with stone can be almost a different job to tiling, some of the professionals on this site are more like stone masons than tilers. If you are not confident in using stone then I would recommend spending some time on this site and read up as much as possible on using natural stone, there is loads of info on here. In my opinion, tiling with stone is no a DIY job, it is a job for a pro.
Below is list of companies that can supply all the materials needed to carry out a stone installation.
Adhesive/grout/primers and silicone sealants
Tile Giant stock Mapei tiling adhesives and grouts, they are my favorite to work with and many of the professionals on this site use nothing else. Tile Giant have stores all over the country, below is a list of their stores.
It is vital to choose the correct tile for your installation, some stone is not suitable for use on floors and others are not suitable for use in wet areas so it is very important to check before buying the stone. If you are fixing stone to a floor the correct substrate preparation must be carried out. If you are fixing natural Stone to the walls then you must be aware of the max weight that your wall can hold. Check with the supplier and find out what the weight of the stone is per m2 and be sure to incorporate the weight of the adhesive and the grout as well (usually between 4-5kg per m2) below is a list of max holding weights of some common tiling surfaces.
Gypsum plaster (finishing plaster) - 20kg/m2
Plasterboard (direct to paper face-no skim) - 32kg/m2
Plywood - around 30kg/m2
Tile backer board - up to 60kg/m2 (check with board manufacturer)
Sand and cement render - unlikely to be exceeded
Approximate weights for natural stone
These are only very rough guidelines, always check with the supplier
Natural stone 7mm thick - 19kg/m2
Natural stone 10mm thick - 27kg/m2
Natural stone 20mm thick - 55kg/m2
Many things can be achieved with Stone, A lot of Stone installers like to profile the edges.. these being either a square edge finish that is honed to as close as the surface finish or even a bull nose finish like these ones on my jobs..
You will require the correct tools to be able to perform these tasks..
these include a variable speed polisher , a bull nosing profiler and in some case a double bull nose profiler.. and then various grit diamond pads dry/or wet and also various grit paper discs can be used..
Posted by Wetdecs elsewhere on the forum but perfect for this thread.
Working With Stone
As stone has become more popular and specialist stone fixers are few and far between tilers take on a proportion of their work.
Most stone work such as sealing and maintenance can be researched but on the odd occasion tilers come up against practices they are not trained for. One of these practices is the finishing of external corners and edges.
In general corners and edges that tilers come across in the work place can be finished with a metal or plastic profile, on stone this isn’t always the best finish. Natural stone does not combine well with manmade materials and profiles are not made to accommodate stone tile thickness are just a couple of reasons why edges and corners may need some extra skills.
Traditionally where stone tiles meet at an external corner the edges are polished and fixed to produce a quirk , butt-up or masons mitre. Shaping after fixing to a half bull nose, or eased mitre are more recent options. In today’s workplace a half bull nose or eased mitre would be applied to travertine as this stone is soft and easy to shape, with marble or granite a quirk mitre, eased mitre or butt-up would be used. During the cutting of stone chipping of the edges often occurs, combine this with the dangers of
sharp edges and you see why full mitres are to be avoided. Tile edge polishing
The word “marble” is colloquially used to refer to many stones that are capable of taking a high polish. When you polish something you are replacing scratches with finer scratches to the point where they are no longer visible.A polished or honed stone tile will often have a dull non descript edge which needs to be worked before a quirk mitre can be used.
To polish an edge the following tools would be required:
ØElectric hand grinder up to 2700 rpm
ØAbrasive disc backing pad
ØAbrasive discs at 50, 100, 200, 400, 800, 1500, 3000 grits
ØBuffing compound
ØFelt wheel
Using a work mate (a piece of inner tube one either side)clamp the tile so you are looking down on the edge to be polished and have a practice with your grits. Only you will see the results of each grit and be able to judge which ones you will or won’t need. Each stone is different so go easy until you have a process giving the finish you require then final polish using the buffing compound and felt disk. Polishing stone is like riding a bike a course can show you but you must educate yourself………..you have to feel it
and work with it………………….then you never forget. The Quirk Mitre
The cutter is set to mitre the tile at 90 degrees. Lay the tile face down on your wet cutter using a pad to prevent scratching.
Draw the cutter towards you until it touches the tile and will cut to the corner. You are not cutting a full mitre so ease the tile away from the blade until it is cutting to 3 or 4mm from the corner, lock the guide.
The tiles are fitted together using a grout or resin filler to match the tiles. The Masons Mitre
The masons mitre is created by notching one tile as per the diagram this joint is slightly more difficult as it requires cutting in 2 directions.
The result of the masons mitre will be visually the same as the quirk mitre but is a stronger joint Butt Up Joint
The butt up joint is a simple joint leaving one polished edge visible. The visible edge should be made away from line of sight or internal as it is framed with grout. Resin or grout filler matching the stone can make this a nice clean joint.
The one failing of the butt-up joint is its sharp and sometimes dangerous edge. To avoid this edge the joint can be eased as below. Eased Corner Joints
By easing a joint you are taking the edge back up to 2.5mm creating a blunt flat edge.
The ease is easiest to work on travertine because of its structure it can’t be polished without filling. Take off the sharp edge with a medium grit before grouting the new edge. When dry sand with a fine grit until smooth. A little colour intensifier will finish the ease nicely. Half Bullnose
Seen here the half bullnose (isn’t quite) is the rounding off of the external edge letting the stone flow nicely.
This finish works an absolute treat on tumbled marble as you are not working with a polished surface. Rounding corners at window reveals in kitchens is straightforward and adds a touch of class and reflects well on the tiler.
All in all joints and edges in stone are not difficult but do take time to learn. Once you have your grits right then it becomes easy and you add a new skill to your trade. Don’t be put off by silly prices being charged for polishers it’s not about the tool there are low priced hand grinder s to be had and given the little use they get a heavy spend is not required.
Geoff - Plan Tec Tiling & Wet Room Solutions - Covering EAST DORSET
Tiler in Wimborne , Tiler in Ferndown , Tiler in Poole , Tiler in Bournemouth , Tiler in Christchurch , Tiler in Ringwood www.plantectiling.co.uk
love this thread thanks for the info. As a tiler i am humbled in the presence of such top notch *stone specialists. The lads that have profiling tools are producing a lovely finish unfortunately i do not have one can anybody let me now where to get one.
love this thread thanks for the info. As a tiler i am humbled in the presence of such top notch *stone specialists. The lads that have profiling tools are producing a lovely finish unfortunately i do not have one can anybody let me now where to get one.
My current profiler is done so a new one is being ordered in the morning,
I'm treating myself to a makita top spec variable speed polisher/grinder, a new bullnose bit for it, diamond pads, a marble vanity grinder blade, a 1mm thick porcelain cutting blade and whatever else i spot tonight..
Stonetools stock the lot and their prices are the best around as far as i see.
Check their website Dean, and droooooooooooooool.... like me.
Formerly known as Captain Slow
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Life isn't guaranteed, but at least my work is
I have had a 15mm bull nose router for years but got the 5mm router a couple of months back and find it gives a sharper more up to date look for the more modern contempory bathrooms I tend to be doing these days.
also the velcro backed silicone carbide disks are much easier to use than the glue ons, that said I tend to use dry diamond pads on trav and limestone , only use sc on marble.
the makita is a great machine it has some real power.
check out their filler tints, I have the full range and the price is good lasts for ages too, mix with straw, clear and white polyester filler you can get all stone colours no probs
My order is in, I need to make 120 8"x4" rounded 12mm marble for a splashback.
I have to cut them from left over tiles from the floor, lol.
The makita will be busy over the coming weeks.
Great thread. Very good info. Is there a way to blog the posts here?
The thing I like about stone floors best is that if you fill the grout lines and do a grind in place you can have a floor that is very maintainable. If the grout is level with the stone you don't get the dirt trap between the tiles like a ceramic floor.
Got my new tools this evening from stonetools.
I only ordered late yesterday evening too !!!
I already have the discs for polishing but got a new bullnose bit as you see.
Brilliant prices and service from stonetools.
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Originally Posted by Dave 
Can you swap those numbers round for me please Dave, it wont let me as its been over 20mins
Tiling is in our blood
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