We have stuck some porcelain floor tiles 450 x 450 to the bathroom wall with Bal White Star. Since been told that we shd have used Bal spf but the White Star seems to be holding. They are on part plaster stud, part aquapanel and part solid plastered wall. Do we need to remove them and start again? Please say no!
Wendy

White star is an excellent adhesive but it dries by evaporation of the moisture in the adhesive. When you use large format tiles like you have, the moisture finds it difficult to get out from the centre of the tile and there is a possibility it may never dry.

In your case, and if you haven't grouted yet, you may get away with it becuase your backgrounds are porous. If you haven't grouted I would leave it at least 2 weeks before you do so.

Yes, spf would have been the better choice, it "cures" and not dries as such but if you make a mistake and use an incorrect adhesive , White Star is a good choice to use in error.

As Grumpy says if you are going to make a mistake using tubbed you have done it with one of the best. It is the only class AA or D2 (as they call it now i think) tubbed adhesive. So follow his advice and leave it for a couple of weeks before grouting to help it cure.

Kev

Some profound advice there kev did you think that up all on your own

Originally Posted by TilingLogistics

As Grumpy says if you are going to make a mistake using tubbed you have done it with one of the best. It is the only class AA or D2 (as they call it now i think) tubbed adhesive. So follow his advice and leave it for a couple of weeks before grouting to help it cure.

Kev

No Deano just following Grumpy!!! Because he's done a lot more fixing than me But at the end of the day if you are going to use tubbed gear Whitestar is brilliant

Kev

Ive had to use rubbish evo-stick tubbed gear on 50+50 porcelain floor tiles on walls before on mdf and there still there a year later,bear in mind this is in a showoom so there won't be any moisture.
By the way I clearly stated to the foreman and owner that this was the wrong adhesive and substrate.I made sure that they put in writing that I'd suggested different methods.

The thing is we know the proper way of putting tiles up,but I've even lifted dot and dabbed tiles that have been down 50 years and they were perfectly fine.

Originally Posted by IvegotsTILE

Ive had to use rubbish evo-stick tubbed gear on 50+50 porcelain floor tiles on walls before on mdf and there still there a year later,bear in mind this is in a showoom so there won't be any moisture.
By the way I clearly stated to the foreman and owner that this was the wrong adhesive and substrate.I made sure that they put in writing that I'd suggested different methods.

The thing is we know the proper way of putting tiles up,but I've even lifted dot and dabbed tiles that have been down 50 years and they were perfectly fine.

As you stated you new that it was not the correct way of doing the job but the customer wanted it like that. I am sorry to say but if anything dose go wrong it is you that will get the blame and not the customer. If the customer tells the builder that they do not want any footings for there building do you think the builder will just do it or will they tell the customer sorry but if that is want you want get some other mug. If you cannot stand your ground with these people for fearer of loosing a job then you deserve every thing you get.

Thanks for the prompt response. We had only tiled two walls when we found out so the others are done in spf. We will leave the grouting as long as possible as you suggest. There is no shower in this bathroom, so perhaps we will be lucky. Thanks again.

Well, I would say you've dropped a big bloomer.



BAL Whit Star doesn't have BAL's PorcelBond Plus Technology so is not suitable for porcelain tiles whereas BAL SPF does.

BAL's technical department have spent a lot of time developing each of their products and state just where and how each product should be used.



Also what has to be taken into account regarding which adhesive to use and what the surfaces are that are being fixed to is per/sqmtr - the weight of the tiles+the weight of the adhesive as well as the weight of the grout.



Someone else has said that in a court of law even if you have written acceptance from the customer/builder or even uncle Tom Cobley YOU are meant to be the professional and therfore your word is law!!!



You should be back to the job - pull everything off and start again making sure you have the correct boarding/adhesive and grout before you start!

I wouldn't use white star tubbed dispersion adhesive on that size of porcelain tile at all....would be ok on porcelain mosaic or 100mm tiles but nothing as large as that.
I would deffo use a single part flexi ( cement based )...

We did the same and for a while I was worried the whole wall would collapse as I took a shower. Its been 5 years and its still up.

After Shot



In construction. Mix of plasterboard, wood, stud, ply and everything else !



R

is that nicobond adhesive in the pics richard. i have put 400x400 porcelain on plasterboard before with no problems. i wouldnt do it again though. that was about 4 years ago and no probs so far. would deffo use spf all the time now apart from 100x100 on splashbacks

Originally Posted by deanotile

As you stated you new that it was not the correct way of doing the job but the customer wanted it like that. I am sorry to say but if anything dose go wrong it is you that will get the blame and not the customer. If the customer tells the builder that they do not want any footings for there building do you think the builder will just do it or will they tell the customer sorry but if that is want you want get some other mug. If you cannot stand your ground with these people for fearer of loosing a job then you deserve every thing you get.

One,don't call me stupid.I had my solicitor draw up a letter to say that the materials being used were not recommended by me or the manufactures and that if they wanted me to carry out the job to there spec they had to accept all responsibilities and that my work would not be guarenteed or covered by my insurance.My solicitor got the MG's and foreman of the owners and contractors to sign this.My solicitor says its watertight and there won't be any comebacks on the legal side.

Two,Believe me I can stand my ground.I argued my point with the owners and contractors for an hour providing them with proof of what to use and why,they were given phone numbers of the adhesive phone lines and I even suggested they posted a question on here.All of this didn't work,there reason was they supplied the addy thereselves(owners) from what they sell and that they had done 3 other showrooms with the stuff and there had never been a problem in 5 years.They have the final say being the customer,what should I have done... payed for the right materials myself or should have done what I consider really stupid,turn down 2 and a half months of work 5 minites walk from my house on £160 a day with regular breaks and an 8 hour day.

This being the case I applied addy to the substrate and every tile,all units with large format tiles were given at least a week before grouting.The tiles were all stuck solid,no chance of pulling them off let alone falling off.I feel thats as much as I could do to do a good job.
In todays climate you can't turn down too many jobs,I've already turned down alot of work because I was unhappy with some of the things customers have asked me to do.This showroom has won me so many jobs as customers have seen the quality of my work,I think that proves I would have been stupid to have passed on it and feel that I have got everything that I deserved.

Originally Posted by IvegotsTILE

One,don't call me stupid.I had my solicitor draw up a letter to say that the materials being used were not recommended by me or the manufactures and that if they wanted me to carry out the job to there spec they had to accept all responsibilities and that my work would not be guarenteed or covered by my insurance.My solicitor got the MG's and foreman of the owners and contractors to sign this.My solicitor says its watertight and there won't be any comebacks on the legal side.

Two,Believe me I can stand my ground.I argued my point with the owners and contractors for an hour providing them with proof of what to use and why,they were given phone numbers of the adhesive phone lines and I even suggested they posted a question on here.All of this didn't work,there reason was they supplied the addy thereselves(owners) from what they sell and that they had done 3 other showrooms with the stuff and there had never been a problem in 5 years.They have the final say being the customer,what should I have done... payed for the right materials myself or should have done what I consider really stupid,turn down 2 and a half months of work 5 minites walk from my house on £160 a day with regular breaks and an 8 hour day.

This being the case I applied addy to the substrate and every tile,all units with large format tiles were given at least a week before grouting.The tiles were all stuck solid,no chance of pulling them off let alone falling off.I feel thats as much as I could do to do a good job.
In todays climate you can't turn down too many jobs,I've already turned down alot of work because I was unhappy with some of the things customers have asked me to do.This showroom has won me so many jobs as customers have seen the quality of my work,I think that proves I would have been stupid to have passed on it and feel that I have got everything that I deserved.

I apologise for calling you stupid I did not mean to attack you personally but the point I was trying to make in my own clumsy way was for people to realize that the law has changed and not in a good way. If you do a job as a professional you will be held responsible for that work and it doesn’t mater how many bits of paper you get signed it doesn’t even mater that you didn’t supply the materials. If you know its wrong then don’t do it.

No worries Dean everyones entitled to there opinion,I'd agree with you nearly all the time but if you hit a slack period and something like this job turns up before Christmas when you have a mortgage and a child wanting a Playstation 3 you have to bite the bullet,they would've changed the tiler(me) before they spent all that money ripping off 24 bays of boarding and changing for something more suitable,just had to do the best I could with the products I was given,believe me I did a very good job,those tiles werent going anywhere.

Thaks for the reply

i agree with ivegots i believe he took all nessercary precautions before starting in this day in age if you cant turn down work like that just for the sake of wrong materials especially if he advised the shop and took legal advise aswell.

If they do fall off you can re stick them

can i just say i no white star is the best to use in mistake but you really need a cement based adhesive if the tiles fail and start to fall off Bal will just turn around and say you shouldnt off used that adhesive. Also what plaster was it? if it was plaster skimmed you will prob find they would start to fall off and take half the plaster with it, as plaster skimmed can only hold up to 20KG and plaster board can hold up to 32KG

i dont mean to give loads off bad news

Ryan

Originally Posted by Unregistered

can i just say i no white star is the best to use in mistake but you really need a cement based adhesive if the tiles fail and start to fall off Bal will just turn around and say you shouldnt off used that adhesive. Also what plaster was it? if it was plaster skimmed you will prob find they would start to fall off and take half the plaster with it, as plaster skimmed can only hold up to 20KG and plaster board can hold up to 32KG

i dont mean to give loads off bad news

Ryan

you can join the forums for free and then we know who you are in your posts.........thanks for the input.....

It WILL set eventually,and once it has be sure to use a top notch grout....Large porcelain tiles on a wall,GOT to be cement based.....