I am having an on-going argument with a local supplier who insists that No More Ply backer boards are as good as Ekoboard type boards for insulation.
I have asked for them to provide figures for heat loss etc but they cant.

While I dont doubt that the No More Ply boards offer some insulation I am yet to be convinced that it is worth anything.

On another point are the Ekoboard boards soft to the touch or do they have a hard covering ?
Its always seemed strange to me that tiling onto these soft boards is a good idea but its not been a problem up to now.

If the Ekoboards are the blue ones then no they have no cement facing.. Personally i will not tile on them..

As for Values,, i can't see a solid none polycore board having much of a rating.. can you..

Just looking at Uheat's brochure and here are some figures

Thickness U value

6mm 4.5
10mm 2.7
20mm 1.45
30mm .97
40mm .72
50mm .58
60mm .48

water absorption Nil

Density 35 kg/m3

I would say they have a far higher insulation value than NMP, each serves a different purpose.

Originally Posted by Dave

If the Ekoboards are the blue ones then no they have no cement facing.. Personally i will not tile on them..

As for Values,, i can't see a solid none polycore board having much of a rating.. can you..

Yes Dave those are the ones I was looking at and no, I dont like the idea of tiling to a soft board. It may be ok but I dont feel at ease with it. Most of these UFH heating companies do reccomend these type of boards though.
As for heat values I cant see ther being much benefit, I guess there would be some maybe but nothing to shout about.

Originally Posted by diamondtiling

I would say they have a far higher insulation value than NMP, each serves a different purpose.

I agree and I have no quibble with NMP as a backer board for overlaying wooden floors etc but not as an insulation product.

never used the eco boards but although soft on 'point', contact, look pretty strong on 'area' contact, if you follow. cement faced obviously looks better to tile on.

The insulation value is it's ability to resist the transer of heat. If the material is the same depth then the one with the higher resistance will give the better insulation value.

Sometimes this is expressed as an R Value (resistance value) - the higher the R - value the lower the Conductivity so the better the insulation value.

Sometimes it is expressed as the Lambda value which is the Thermal Conductivity which is the opposite way to look at it - the lower the Lambda value the lower the Thermal Conductivity which means it is a better insulator.

Check which of the two has the higher value. If no value is available it probably means it has not been tested and if so the manufacturer is making a statement which cannot be substantiated. This is mis-representation and contravenes the provision of goods and services act..........

I doubt NMP will reply to my request of values !

throw this one at you with timber floors why not lay sisolation foil down on floor first then fix cementsheet over havent done it myself but have heard of others doing it might be worth a thought Insulation Foil

NMP don't seem to have values so I guess they would not really know. I will try and find out though.

Ekoboard has a lambda value of 0.027 W/mK I think.....

More interested in proving to this tile shop that the NMP is next to useless for insulation. Of course they know it all....NOT !

No more ply has a Thermal Conductivity of 0.41 W/mK based on a 9mm board. This is from their BBA certificate. http://www.tiletown.co.uk/published/...ertificate.pdf

The Thermal Conductivity of the Ekoboards at 0.027W/mK based on a 6mm board. This is from their data sheet. for some reason it won't let me upload the link for this data sheet so used the info from U Heat website.......



This basically means that the NMP is about very significantly less effective at 10mm than the Ekoboard at 6mm. Have fun at the tile shop.....

Lol . I love this forum ...Cheers

I copied this from their website.....
"Q. Does the board have any other useful applications?
A. Primarily, No More Ply is an overboarding product to be used for leveling surfaces prior to tiling, but due to its heat resistance it is also the ideal choice for underfloor heating applications - it will not shrink or expand. No More Ply is a good insulator with sound deadening properties so it has an added advantage as a wall board in flats and apartments. Note, if insulation is your primary concern we would recommend a Premium Insulation Board as an alternative, please ring for more information"

In my mind that says that it is nowhere near as good as the Ekoboard.

Just a last note to demonstrate true geekness

If you used Ekobaord in a house floor 10m x 10m with all walls being outside wall and overlaid it with 6mm of gypsum based smoothing compound this would give you a u-value of 0.54.

If you use 10mm of NMP with the same amount of the same smoothing compound it would give you 0.60

the lower the value the warmer the floor. These values exclude the effect of the substrate under the backer board. 0.06 difference is quite significant.

Don't forget there are two types of insulation though. The NMP may offer a better acoustic insulation value than the Ekoboard if it is more dense. Can' find density figures for the NMP though.

Is an Ecoboard the same as the Celotex board? Been looking to insulate my garage door...

Similar - The Ekoboard seems to be XPS (Extruded Polystyrene) Lambda value 0.027 whereas Celotex is PIR (polyisocyanurate) Lambda Value 0.023. Celotex will offer slightly better thermal insulation mm for mm but I think the Ekoboard would probably be slightly more robust to mechanical damage.

So 10mm is good.

Originally Posted by jay

throw this one at you with timber floors why not lay sisolation foil down on floor first then fix cementsheet over havent done it myself but have heard of others doing it might be worth a thought Insulation Foil

Won't you get condensation forming above the boards that way? I have a very cold suspended wooden floor I was looking at insulating, and the consensus on the various websites I looked at was that the insulation would have to go under the suspended floor to prevent condensation and rot. Which is why I haven't insulated it yet

Well this is my reply from NMP

"The 6mm No More Ply has a Thermal Conductivity value of 0.412 W/mk to ISO 8302:1991 (BS EN12664: 2001).

The Beavaboard however is 0.027 W/mk to BS874.

Unfortunately thermal values are a minefield because there are differing standards, as here, and different ways of measuring them. However, in real life comparisons with cable underfloor heating the following approximate results were observed:

1. Onto bare concrete slab – took about 3 hours to reach max temp of 24°C.
2. Onto No More Ply 6mm – took about 40 minutes to reach 24°C and 3 hours to reach max temp of 27°C.
3. Onto Beavaboard 6mm – took about 30 minutes to reach 24°C; temperature 29°C at 3 hours and still increasing.

If you are going to use No More Ply under wire underfloor heating, you must remember to prime the surface with Mega® SBR as this helps to reflect the heat back up.

In summary No More Ply reduces warm-up time, increases efficiency and allows a greater maximum temperature. Beavaboard is cement-coated foam board of the same type as recommended by underfloor heating companies, and has the same effect but to a greater extent."

So.. How does SBR reflect heat,,

Originally Posted by Dave

So.. How does SBR reflect heat,,

Ahhh but its "Mega SBR" ...that explains it

Originally Posted by richarevans1

Won't you get condensation forming above the boards that way? I have a very cold suspended wooden floor I was looking at insulating, and the consensus on the various websites I looked at was that the insulation would have to go under the suspended floor to prevent condensation and rot. Which is why I haven't insulated it yet

prob right spose you will get the same with insulation board

"prob right spose you will get the same with insulation board"

Yeah, looks like the best option is to lift the boards and insulate underneath between but not below the beams, holding up the insulation with battens nailed to the beams. A real pain but better than having to replace a rotten floor.

if you dint have this insulation board then what are the other ways for under floor heating?
I really want to know because, we can warm the room with Ac but it dosn't effect the flooring, especially those chilled tiles.

Originally Posted by AshleyWilis

if you dint have this insulation board then what are the other ways for under floor heating?
I really want to know because, we can warm the room with Ac but it dosn't effect the flooring, especially those chilled tiles.

Sorry can you rephrase this, not sure what you are saying ?