This is for anyone who is considering emmigrating to

Australia or any other country and is based on my own

experience. While time has passed i appreciate that

some methods may have changed. I hope that you will

read this and see the message i am try to convey. I was

thinking of leaving out all the personal stuff but then i

dont think the whole meassage would make sense.

Its an exciting prospect to emmigrate to lands of plenty

and better ways of life but there is more to leaving one

country for another and to each of us the circumstances

will be different.
My situation was a wife and 2 young children. I have a

small family who are not really close. My ex wifes

family were close and to make matters more

complicated her sister and brother in law were

emmigrating with us. This would leave her parents

without any children or grand children (as we had the

only kids in the family) in the UK.
Both my ex wife and her sister were Nurses and had

good qualifications for Australian emmigration. My ex

brother in law was in sales/Insurance/finance and was

confident in being able to talk himself into a job without

a problem.
While we were form filling to meet requirements,

discussions took place regarding leaving family behind.

This wasnt an issue for me but i wasnt so sure about my

Ex wife. over and over i asked if she was sure and she

always said she was. Previously to getting married she

had travelled Australia and loved the country. This was

the base behind the idea of emmigrating.
Our own efforts of filling forms were not going too well,

many forms were returned as they were not correct and

documents we sent away were lost in the system. So

after almost a year we decided to use an agency to do

all this for us. This proved money well spent and eased

the process considerably.
Soon we had dates for leaving the country, but the

inlaws had an earlier date but they decided to go ASAP

and not wait, this was in April 2001. This was beneficial

to us as by the time we arrived, about 4 months later,

they would be in a position to offer us accomodation.
So they went and we started the process of selling up

and getting quotes for moving all belongings. It was

soon evident that it would be cheaper to sell any none

essential items and repurchase over there.
Meanwhile, info from Oz and the inlaws came back that

my ex sister in law hated the place before she got off the

plane. It was always my opinion that she did not really

want to go but was bullied into it by her husband. After

a month of her tears my ex father in law decided that he

would go over and try and calm her down. I spoke

about this matter to my ex wife and said to her that it

looked like her sister would not cope and return at some

point....how would she feel about her sister returning to

the UK and us being in Oz ? She said time and time

again that it was their problem and that we were going. I

found this hard to believe as she was very close to her

sister.
In the August of the same year our time had come and

after months of car boot sales, selling the house and

getting rid of a car and van we were ready to go.
On arrival in Oz we were greeted by the ex brother in

law and sister in law. I could tell that things were not

good. She had started work but hated everything and

everyone. He had not found any jobs despite having lots

of interviews. They had managed to buy a house, which

is very easy to do and the process is a lot easier than

here in the UK. You could be in a house you like within

a month as long as you have a mortgage sorted or the

money to buy.
For the next month it was decided that i would take the

kids to school and nusery until they were settled and

also sort myself a form of transport for work. I opted for

a Toyota Hilux twincab. After dropping the kids off in

the morning i would keep out of the house of my inlaws

due to the friction. My ex brother in law would apply

for jobs all day and some times go on interviews. His

attitude was all wrong in my opinion. he wanted UK

wages but the Oz way of life. It doesnt work like that

over there.
He also wanted a good job, comparable to what he was

use to here in the UK. I always felt he should just get a

foot on the ladder and prove his worth to the company

he worked for if he felt he was that good.
Back to my job searching....well the day after we landed

(Sunday) in Oz, i was up and about early and decided to

look at some new houses that were being built on the

same estate as where we were staying. I approached the

1st house and it looked like someone was working

there. I went inside and met a tiler by coincidence. His

name was Suad, he was from Croatia. We later became

friends and i was to learn of how he came to Australia.

A very sad story in itself.
Australia is a multi cultural country and if you have

issues with the colour of skin or nationalities i advise

you to unpack your bags now !.
Meanwhile i contacted the tax office and stated that i

wanted to get a card so i could go tiling. I managed to

do it all online and even registered a company name

online.
On site i found that most Tilers were generally Aussies,

while all painters seemed to be Italian. Irish tended to

do drive ways and carpenters could be mostly Aussie or

Brits. Of course this could just have been on the sites

and in the areas that i worked.
Anyway Suad gave me a phone number to call when i

was ready to start work. I put it in my pocket until one

sunday in early September. On that morning i was

reading the Jobs section in the paper and there were 10

tilers jobs going. The 1st number was the same as Suad

had given me.
I called and spoke to a guy called Simon who sounded

very Australian and very aggressive. The following day i

was to meet Simon on site for an interview. I was there

on time but he wasnt...This is something else about

Aussies ....the time keeping is very hit and miss !

Anyway Simon turned up and we chatted, he still

sounded very short in his remarks about "Foreigners"

and Apprentices. I later found out this was due to other

people who had come to work for him not being reliable

or not meeting his standards.
With Simon was Arron, He was an apprentice who

Simon had been training for a while and was a great kid.

In the mornings you would hear Arron coming from

miles away as he drove an old Holden V8 Ute (Pickup

truck).
It was agreed that i would turn up the following week

and start working alongside Simon for 3 weeks. If i was

up to the grade he would give me a contract. By

contract i thought this meant a monthly or yearly

agreement but it actually means that you get a contract

paper stating that you will tile a certain house for the

agreed amount. At this time he was tiling for A.V.

Jennings who i believe was and still maybe Australias

largest house builder.
The day arrived to start work...memorable because it

was the morning of 11th Sept 2001 and i walked out of

the bedroom in the inlaws house to see my ex brother in

law watch the plane crashes on the TV in America. he

asked were i was going so early as i hadnt told him i had

found a job...the first one i applied for !!!
He wasnt looking to happy but off i went and met

Simon on site...who was late again..this time due to the

news coverage.
The day started with Simon telling me to tile a small

laundry floor in the house were he was working in the

kitchen. Nothing hard, 200 x 200 tiles with a tile as

skirting, corner skirtings to be mitred. Not long after i

had finished that and found Simon tiling in the kitchen.

he asked if i had a problem ? "No" i said " i have done

that !...He looked suspicious and went to the room i

tiled and looked all over it. "Ok, tile this floor in the

bathroom, same details".... So off i went and that was

soon done too. On approaching Simon this time he

looked at me and i said "what next?" .
This is where his attitude to me changed and we had a

short conversation over a pie and a drink during the

lunch break.....Aussies love pies and they smother it

with tomato sauce ! I Really miss those pies !

Anyway, Simons attitude then changed and he

explained all about previous tilers wanting work. It

seems that a lot of people would think they could tile

but had no idea. He didnt have a high opinion of Brits

anyway and that didnt change much in the time i knew

him. I didnt take offence and in some ways i understood

how he felt. This didnt make him a bad guy, in fact he

was a great mate, i think he had been bitten a few times

and found it hard to trust anyone.
The next arrived after a tense moment back at the house

where we were staying. Arguments were nothing new

since arriving. Mainly due to my ex sister in law locking

her self in the bedroom and crying all night. When my

ex wife tried to talk to her, he would get all aggressive (

he had a history of bad tempers). As i said the next day

arrived and i went to site. Simon was there and i walked

to where we had been working the previous day. He met

me half way and gave me 4 sheets of paper, i thought it

was some forms that i needed to fill in. They were in

fact, contracts for four houses in the area to be tiled. So

much for working alongside him for 3 weeks.
And so started my tiling company in Australia. Each

house on the developments where we were working had

about 78m2 - 115m2 of floor area to be tiled depending

on the type of house. A splashback in the open plan

kitchen of about 3m2, A bathroom with a shower

enclosure with 2 or 3 rows of tiles over the bath and the

baths were built into a "tub"...basically this was a box

made from construction boards into which the bath was

placed after tiling...this took time but it was easily made

up on the floor areas. All house had at least one extra

bathroom or EnSuite to be tiled too but in general, wall

tiling was to a minimum....A bonus for me as i preferred

floors. A time scale for an average house to be

completely tiled was said to be about a week, maybe 10

days. 4 days afer starting my 1st house i handed Simon

the 1st contract back, this is to state that the job has

been done and i require payment. He made a special

journey to the house the next day to check my work and

apart from wanting certain items done a different way,

he was happy. That night he came to my 2nd job where

i was working after he finished work and found me still

tiling at about 6 pm....most workers had gone home by

5pm. I confessed that i actually enjoyed the long hours

as home life wasnt too good at that time and that the 1st

house i tiled i was working from 6am up until 7pm. We

went to the pub and chatted more. from this time on we

became mates but not close, then one day after a few

months working for him, he told me he would be having

a holiday . As i had a folder full of contracts and all

adhesives and grouts etc were in his garage at home (

Very big garage) i would need a key to help

myself...This coming from a guy who didnt trust many

people....I also found out soon after that the other 4

guys he had working for him had no keys. Some of these

guys decided to have a break at the same time as Simon.

So i would collect all my own gear after work in

readiness for the following day.It was always a pleasure

as Simon lived in a small place called Emerald on the

edge of the Dandenong mountains. To get there was a

lovely ride through the edge of the bush.
Tiles were delivered and carried into the house to be

tiled by the delivery drivers.
In this time we had bought our house and moved in.

Within a week of moving in my ex father in law and

mother in law came to stay...FOR 3 MONTHS ...this

was where everything started to go wrong. Over the time

that we had been there, my ex sister in laws attitude

hadnt changed, my ex brother in law had managed to

get a job but hated it. After a while i was told that the

ex brother in law would go back to the UK and his wife

would stay to sell the house, then move in with us for a

while....between the lines they were heading for a

divorce. So we had my ex wifes parents and her sister,

my wife, 2 kids and myself under the same roof at

certain times. It was getting tense, as i new that if my ex

wifes sister went back to the UK then it would put

pressure on our own marriage. to make matters worse,

her mother and father were making trouble themselves

by making my ex wife feel guilty about taking the grand

children away from them. They were continually trying

to make her to go back to the UK. There were days of

silence between my ex wife and myself.
Meantime, we had met people who were new to Oz too

and people who had been in Oz for a while. Along with

friends we made at work, our social lives were good.

Without the interference of the ex inlaws i think we

would have been ok but in the following June (2002) I

decided i had had enough and that her parents had won,

But i told her in such a way that it was if she left

Australia, then we were over and the marriage would

end.
10 days later she flew back to the UK with the kids and

on the same flight as her parents who had just had their

3rd visit in a year to Oz.

After 3 months alone in Australia i too returned to the

UK. 3 months of not seeing the children had worn me

down. As much as i would have loved to stay in the

country, i knew the kids meant so much more.

So the reason for this story is for all those thinking of

emmigration that you really need to talk things through

with all the family. I thought i had done this but it just

wasnt enough. Either that or some people werent saying

how they really felt about the move to the other side of

the world. I really wouldnt want this to happen to

anyone else, but talking to others while in Oz its a

common story.
We knew a couple while we were there that had never

argued in 15 years of marriage but in Oz did nothing but

argue.

Many times i get asked about my time in Oz and

whether i enjoyed it. I love talking about it and try and

help out if i can. Last year a local tiler decided he had

enough of this country and decided Australia was for

him. i put him in touch with the guy i worked for and

he actually moved onto the same estate where i lived. I

did advise he go to Australia for a holiday to see what it

was all like but he thought he knew better. After a few

months he has decided that he doesnt like it so he is due

to return to the UK in October. He said that they work

long hours but i found i had more time to do things that

i dont have the time to do over here. He didnt like the

wages and i have to agree that i was only getting a rate

of a rthird of what i had been getting in the UK but after

11 months of trading in Oz i had earned more than teh

previous 12 months in the UK, mainly due to the larger

areas of floors.

Another problem i encountered was that too many

people expect the Aussies to treat them as something

special. Its not the way it works. the Aussies are some of

the nicest laid back people you will ever meet. Dont go

over and expect to change them into the English way of

life.

I always felt that the Aussie way of life was to work to

live and not live to work. 4 days of the week the lads

would turn up on site at 7am and leave about 4.30 -

5.30. On Friday, a lot of them would leave at lunch time

with their wives meeting them on the site with boats, jet

skis, caravans or motorbikes on trailers at the back of

the and then they would head off for the weekend.

Many times i was asked along to join them as i used to

go bush riding in my spare time.

Would i go back ? Yes if i hadnt got kids and i was

younger.

Any regrets ? Not really, i tried and found that it suited

me. It actually felt more like home than it does in the

UK. I found i could make it and i am sure that even

today i would have been happily tiling but probably not

sub contracting.

So for alll those considering emmigration, try and cover

all issues and for god sake talk about it.

that was a great read, really enjoyed it

I enjoyed reading that neale...i could listen to the good parts of that story over and over again..

It is very good advice and many thanks for sharing this with us..

Originally Posted by Dave

I enjoyed reading that neale...i could listen to the good parts of that story over and over again..

It is very good advice and many thanks for sharing this with us..

Its the good parts i remember most of all .

That was an honest view Neale and some good points on emigrating. Perhaps the grass is'nt greener sometimes.

Cracking post neale

Thanks for taking the time to share that, top bloke

good post, very interesting!

“Great read” that was a very honest and true description regards life in Oz.. Brought back a few memories reading that, I’ve spent time living in Oz with the wife, very different circumstances to your own as no kids or relatives involved. Big enough move just the two of us, so can’t imagine how hard it was in your situation – take my hat off to ya!
You raised some good points – People do move there expecting to find little England in the sun and couldn’t be more wrong. The Aussies are very proud people and its you that has to “Fit-In” with them, as far as they concerned, they didn't ask you come so if you don't like it “Sod-Off”..
Very true about the PIES! Pie mad they are, sell em everywhere, used to love buying an iced-coffee & pie in morns on way to work at 5.30/6am from the garage..
Thanks for your story

A great read! Never been to Oz so have no idea. However, can relate to all the other stuff especially the bit about Brits expecting everything and giving nothing been through that situation more times than I care to remember and the best part of it is they don't need to learn a new language in Oz

tel

thanks for the read you told it like it is

that's why you were quiet last night

that's bang on for sharing that story. so sad

top marks for taking the time to tell, great story.... shame it didnt work out

Great read mate. It something am considering once qualified with experience being 19 and with no real commitments but it certainly made me stop and think.

Great post, Neale, thankyou!

.. which is especially poignant for me as my Son, who while travelling has fallen in love with a great Aussie girl, is in the process of his permanent visa application and wants to stay. Bitter sweet for me, glad he is happy, sad that my only child (and 'blood family' in the UK) will be so far away.

Would he have stayed had he not fallen in love? No, I don't think so, he didn't like Australia that much at first, but I'm not sure now. I know that he has been totally embrazed and been made welcome by his girlfriends family and community.

What I do know though from personal experience is that you have to get a feel for the air you breathe before you settle anywhere. Being German but never feeling comfortable as such I couldn't believe it when I first set foot in England - THIS was where I belonged! I love the UK with a passion, and even though apart form my son the rest of the family are still in Germany, whatever has happened relationshipwise my love for England has been constant throughout, I wouldn't dream of living anywhere else.

So funny how the Brits keep complaining about everything, the weather, that in truth is never too hot nor too cold, nor too stormy not too icy (Ice storms, heavy earthquakes and tornados, freak waves, hailstones as big as eggs, sub zero temperatures or oppressive heat, or monsoons - nor poisonous spiders or snakes or malaria mosquitos? Nothing of the sort here, instead a small beautiful green country with comparatively clean air, water, food, miles of coastline, a lot less oppressive rules than in other countries (you try and be self-employed in Germany!). No, not everything is perfect, but emigration is so often a "the grass is greener somewhere else syndrome", you MUST check if it really is for you.

I hope my son will be happy in his chosen country whatever the relationship will bring - which admittedly is looking good - and if not that he will learn to appreciate the UK for the beautiful place it is. All it needs is a bit of respect and appreciation...

Very, very interesting to read about your experiences in Australia.

I hope to go someday and stay for a month and really travel around. I don't want to set any tile when I am there. Maybe Jay can tell me more about the pies.

sounds nice touring let us know when ill meet up with you meat pies or magpies just out of winter here cleaned the pool fired it up now have 5 kids in it this is life

that was great to read oz has been a dream of mine for years but i have a mrs and a young daughter, better make sure its what they want too

Very enjoyable read neale

very interesting read, !!!!!!thanks for sharing

cheers Neale..top bloke!

very personal but very necessary story. Thanks for passing it on so that others might stop & think about just how hard a move it could be.
for me just moving from 1 state of Australia-(Victoria) to another-(Queensland) has been a massive task 1,700 klm which should indicate just how big this country is & the way of life & people do vary from state to state so if anyone is ever thinking of emigrating i suggest a long working holiday whilst touring the whole country to see what suits.

Yes Nudge, you are quite right about the working holiday but who ever it is must make sure they get out of the holiday mode/feeling...they need to realise that this would be life from the moment they emmigrate.

That was a great read and i'm sorry it did not work out for you. I am in sydney just now and me and my fiance are trying for residency. i have been tiling for seven years but do not have papers, is there any advice you could give me as we are struggling at the moment because there is so many walls in front of us and it just seems we won't get there.

Many thanks
David Finnie

From what I've heard an AQF3 will alow you to apply for a licenceac thak the assessment over there. you need to finde some one that asseses. I know silver trowle do in Perth but not sure of top of my head where on the east coast do.

thats a fantastic read think it will make people who
think they are going there for the easy life rethink.

I understand !I'm an immigrant my self

Originally Posted by Sir Ramic

Anyway, Simons attitude then changed and he

explained all about previous tilers wanting work. It

seems that a lot of people would think they could tile

but had no idea. He didnt have a high opinion of Brits

anyway and that didnt change much in the time i knew

him. I didnt take offence and in some ways i understood

how he felt. This didnt make him a bad guy, in fact he

was a great mate, i think he had been bitten a few times

and found it hard to trust anyone.
The next arrived after a tense moment back at the house

where we were staying. Arguments were nothing new

since arriving. Mainly due to my ex sister in law locking

her self in the bedroom and crying all night. When my

ex wife tried to talk to her, he would get all aggressive (

he had a history of bad tempers). As i said the next day

arrived and i went to site. Simon was there and i walked

to where we had been working the previous day. He met

me half way and gave me 4 sheets of paper, i thought it

was some forms that i needed to fill in. They were in

fact, contracts for four houses in the area to be tiled. So

much for working alongside him for 3 weeks.
And so started my tiling company in Australia. Each

house on the developments where we were working had

about 78m2 - 115m2 of floor area to be tiled depending

on the type of house. A splashback in the open plan

kitchen of about 3m2, A bathroom with a shower

enclosure with 2 or 3 rows of tiles over the bath and the

baths were built into a "tub"...basically this was a box

made from construction boards into which the bath was

placed after tiling...this took time but it was easily made

up on the floor areas. All house had at least one extra

bathroom or EnSuite to be tiled too but in general, wall

tiling was to a minimum....A bonus for me as i preferred

floors. A time scale for an average house to be

completely tiled was said to be about a week, maybe 10

days. 4 days afer starting my 1st house i handed Simon

the 1st contract back, this is to state that the job has

been done and i require payment. He made a special

journey to the house the next day to check my work and

apart from wanting certain items done a different way,

he was happy. That night he came to my 2nd job where

i was working after he finished work and found me still

tiling at about 6 pm....most workers had gone home by

5pm. I confessed that i actually enjoyed the long hours

as home life wasnt too good at that time and that the 1st

house i tiled i was working from 6am up until 7pm. We

went to the pub and chatted more. from this time on we

became mates but not close, then one day after a few

months working for him, he told me he would be having

a holiday . As i had a folder full of contracts and all

adhesives and grouts etc were in his garage at home (

Very big garage) i would need a key to help

myself...This coming from a guy who didnt trust many

people....I also found out soon after that the other 4

guys he had working for him had no keys. Some of these

guys decided to have a break at the same time as Simon.

So i would collect all my own gear after work in

readiness for the following day.It was always a pleasure

as Simon lived in a small place called Emerald on the

edge of the Dandenong mountains. To get there was a

lovely ride through the edge of the bush.
Tiles were delivered and carried into the house to be

tiled by the delivery drivers.
In this time we had bought our house and moved in.

Within a week of moving in my ex father in law and

mother in law came to stay...FOR 3 MONTHS ...this

was where everything started to go wrong. Over the time

that we had been there, my ex sister in laws attitude

hadnt changed, my ex brother in law had managed to

get a job but hated it. After a while i was told that the

ex brother in law would go back to the UK and his wife

would stay to sell the house, then move in with us for a

while....between the lines they were heading for a

divorce. So we had my ex wifes parents and her sister,

my wife, 2 kids and myself under the same roof at

certain times. It was getting tense, as i new that if my ex

wifes sister went back to the UK then it would put

pressure on our own marriage. to make matters worse,

her mother and father were making trouble themselves

by making my ex wife feel guilty about taking the grand

children away from them. They were continually trying

to make her to go back to the UK. There were days of

silence between my ex wife and myself.
Meantime, we had met people who were new to Oz too

and people who had been in Oz for a while. Along with

friends we made at work, our social lives were good.

Without the interference of the ex inlaws i think we

would have been ok but in the following June (2002) I

decided i had had enough and that her parents had won,

But i told her in such a way that it was if she left

Australia, then we were over and the marriage would

end.
10 days later she flew back to the UK with the kids and

on the same flight as her parents who had just had their

3rd visit in a year to Oz.

After 3 months alone in Australia i too returned to the

UK. 3 months of not seeing the children had worn me

down. As much as i would have loved to stay in the

country, i knew the kids meant so much more.

So the reason for this story is for all those thinking of

emmigration that you really need to talk things through

with all the family. I thought i had done this but it just

wasnt enough. Either that or some people werent saying

how they really felt about the move to the other side of

the world. I really wouldnt want this to happen to

anyone else, but talking to others while in Oz its a

common story.
We knew a couple while we were there that had never

argued in 15 years of marriage but in Oz did nothing but

argue.

Many times i get asked about my time in Oz and

whether i enjoyed it. I love talking about it and try and

help out if i can. Last year a local tiler decided he had

enough of this country and decided Australia was for

him. i put him in touch with the guy i worked for and

he actually moved onto the same estate where i lived. I

did advise he go to Australia for a holiday to see what it

was all like but he thought he knew better. After a few

months he has decided that he doesnt like it so he is due

to return to the UK in October. He said that they work

long hours but i found i had more time to do things that

i dont have the time to do over here. He didnt like the

wages and i have to agree that i was only getting a rate

of a rthird of what i had been getting in the UK but after

11 months of trading in Oz i had earned more than teh

previous 12 months in the UK, mainly due to the larger

areas of floors.

Another problem i encountered was that too many

people expect the Aussies to treat them as something

special. Its not the way it works. the Aussies are some of

the nicest laid back people you will ever meet. Dont go

over and expect to change them into the English way of

life.

I always felt that the Aussie way of life was to work to

live and not live to work. 4 days of the week the lads

would turn up on site at 7am and leave about 4.30 -

5.30. On Friday, a lot of them would leave at lunch time

with their wives meeting them on the site with boats, jet

skis, caravans or motorbikes on trailers at the back of

the and then they would head off for the weekend.

Many times i was asked along to join them as i used to

go bush riding in my spare time.

Would i go back ? Yes if i hadnt got kids and i was

younger.

Any regrets ? Not really, i tried and found that it suited

me. It actually felt more like home than it does in the

UK. I found i could make it and i am sure that even

today i would have been happily tiling but probably not

sub contracting.

So for alll those considering emmigration, try and cover

all issues and for god sake talk about it.

Sounds like you had a rough ride.

we move to Oz in June so reading your post was great
i did take my wife out there for a holiday last year but the kids have not been yet so i hope with all my heart we can make it.

all the best

David